Carl:
> I think humankind has both a moral and an
> intellectual obligation to
> > try to evolve beyond capitalism. How tedious to
> imagine an endless
> > future like the present.
Ditto. But far worse is imagining future as glorious past. When I questioned the empirical contents of the socialist vision, one of the discussants (Jim Devine, I believe) quoted the 19th century ideas floated by parts of the US labor movement, and accused me of not knowing the US history. So if all we need to do to create socialist utopia is to resuscitate glorious past that strikes me as even more tedious than Fukuyamaesque "the end of history" tales. Or, for that matter, it is history that repeats itself as farce.
In my original posting that started this thread I stated that my vision of socialism is close to social democracy because I see it as an attainable vision. This vision has everything to do with distribution of costs and benefits, but not much to do with human happiness, freedom and the meaning of life. Searching for utopian land of freedom eternal happiness strikes me as utterly useless and self-deluding. It reminds me of the two characters from Akiro Kurosawa's film 'Dodeska den' - two paupers living on a heap of trash and spending thier pastime on imagining the mansion they will have in the future.
In my view, a realistic view of socialism is basically that of macro-economic planning that favors public goods over private profits. It is quite realistic because substantial parts of it has already been accomplished in different parts of the world. A vision of socialism as a tranformative experience that will transform people into walking virtues, and eradicate social ills strikes me like secularized x-tian eschatology - a dream of heaven and salvation that old canard, opium of the people fooling the human mind for centuries
Devine charges that I "dropped out" of the discussion.
True, because I felt that nobody even read what I wrote but instead became defensive of their utopias - so I lost interest. If I wanted to talk about heaven, I'd go for the real thing offered by religion, instead of settling for the Lefty ersatz of it.
Wojtek
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