Not that I expect Joe or Joanna to examine these.
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CB: Below is a draft letter to the site Michael cites here. Also, copied below is the absurd "meeting" the site has.
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Greetings Debunking,
My question is regarding the absurd hypothetical meeting you sketch out.
Recall Iran-Contra. Wasn't the U.S. intelligence officer there involved in some rather absurd "meetings" and discussions, including something about delivering something in a cake ? The whole thing of connecting Iran ( a foe of the U.S. at that time) and Nicaragua seemed pretty absurd.
My point is it is very dangerous for you to imply that the U.S. government is not involved in very absurd meetings. It may very well be that there was no absurd meeting like the one in your hypothetical. But U.S. involvement at a much lesser level than planning the whole thing is not an absurd possibility. I don't know why you think that by posing only the most extreme and ridiculous scenario you are going to prevent people from thinking up scenarios with a much lower level of participation by the U.S. government than your absurd example. Surely you are committing some logical fallacy in that - exaggeration ad absurdum or whatever.
It's pretty absurd that bin Laden's family was in business with Bush's family, too. But that's not a hypothetical, evidently. It's also absurd that bin Laden was a "freedom fighter" recruited by the U.S. to fight in Afghanistan years ago, but it's not fiction. It's also not an absurd possibility, though it is a very disturbing one, that bin Laden still has some connection to the U.S. intelligence services from his days of serving with them in Afghanistan. When one looks at the history of spying and counter-spying, as least so I am told, such a vicious scenario cannot be ruled out as "absurd".
In general, the specific hypothetical meeting you script on your website probably never took place. I will grant you that. However, I am concerned that you are sending out a message that the U.S, government never has "absurd" ,secret meetings. In fact, it seems the U.S. government _does_ have absurd meetings, and it can exactly because absurd meetings have what Oliver North taught us is known by insiders as "plausible deniability."
As a friend said to me recently, most or many Americans would never allow themselves to believe that their government has such lowdown , evil components such that they would assassinate a President Kennedy, Martin Luther King, or Robert Kennedy or conspire with a bin Laden.
And the government can count on that, so it can do things that "it would never do". That's absurd , but sadly, true.
CB
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The Meeting
The suggestion that someone would need to fly airplanes into two buildings and blow them up is in itself absurd. Could you imagine the meeting?...
Government: We want to cause a tragedy so great the American people will blindly follow us into war... What do you think gentlemen...
( The possibility of this is not in the least absurd ! That's the most important point here. Anybody who thinks the "Government" would not cause a tragedy so great that the American people would blindly follow it into war is living in a Yankee Doodle Dandy dream world -CB)
Accomplice #1: Well, the Towers are a perfect choice.. It's been bombed before. We can just blame Osama again. We've been priming the American people by having him blow up our warships and our buildings in other countries.
Government: Yeah, good idea! How will we do that?
Accomplice #1: We can hire Osama to get some of his friends to fly planes into it!
Accomplice #2: Wait... I have a better idea, We can BOMB the buildings!
Accomplice #1: Well, that means placing enough bombs into the 110 story building. That's going to take a lot of man power and risk us being uncovered...
Accomplice #2: Yeah but that way your sure to knock it down. Besides, Maybe the hijackers wont make it to the target. Maybe they'll be uncovered!
Accomplice #1 But you don't need to knock it down, all you need is the horrific sight of the planes hitting the buildings. People will get the message. It's an attack on American soil. We'll also have people like the blind sheik to cover for us. We'll even put a guy on a train with evidence.
Your plan isn't perfect either you know. Do I have to remind you of Operation Towel Pop? We already tried to embarrass Clinton by knocking it down and failed.
Accomplice #2: Yeah, our bay of pigs, but I say the only way they can get the message is if we knock it down.
Accomplice #1 Do not
Accomplice #2 Do too
Accomplice #1 Do not
Accomplice #2 Do too
Accomplice #1 Do not
Accomplice #2 Do too
Government: Gentlemen, gentlemen... Please... What the hell, we'll just do both! :blink: How do we do that? I mean how do you keep explosions from showing up on TV? We're going to have to investigate this at some point. How do we cover up the seen?
Accomplice #2: But why not just knock it dow...
Government: I've made my decision. continue...
Accomplice #2: OK.. We install charges on every floor so that after the planes hit, we blow each floor under the crash floor one by one, very fast to simulate pancaking. We'll let the building burn a while just for effect. This will also give time for the trusses to sag making it LOOK like a fire caused the building to fall.
Accomplice #1: Nice touch...
Accomplice #2: Why, thank you. :) ...We'll set a charge off in the middle of the building AFTER the top is on it's way down so everyone thinks the puffs of debris coming from the windows are from the tremendous hypodermic needle like pressure blowing debris from the weakest point in the building.
Government: What about the sound of explosions? Isn't that a dead giveaway?
Accomplice #2: No problem, We'll just let them think it's normal electrical explosions like transformers blowing up or the initial concrete and Steel and floors hitting the floors below.
Accomplice #1: Yeah, it could also be the steel columns snapping like twigs from the tremendous weight of the floors above... Don't worry, we have disinformation specialists in Key internet forums.
Government: WOW, You guys think of everything.. What about Building 7? Can we take that out at the same time?
Accomplice #1: We wont be able to fly plans into it, that's for sure...
Accomplice #2: Leave it to me. If we set off the explosions just right we can have one of the towers hit Building 7 missing the two next to it. After that we can set fires on the bottom floors and let it burn for a while, you know, to make it look possible for a normal collapse. I'll call my agent in the fire department to get everyone out before we blow it. I'll figure a way to make the floors look buckled for effect as well.
Government: Amassing... I also want to take out the pentagon. Any suggestions?
Accomplice #1: What we'll do is hijack a plane just for effect then fire a missile at the pentagon. A bunker buster.
Government: But what about the people on the plane?
Accomplice #1: We'll land the plane in area 51 then shoot them all.
Government: Why not use the plane instead of the missile? That way you take care of all the evidence at the same time... People on the highway can also see the planes hit. If you use a missile there's going to be a lot of witnesses who saw a missile and not a plan.
Accomplice #1: err... ah, Don't worry about these small details. I have an under cover op in the DC police department who will take the names down and shot them all.
Government: How are you going to get all the people involved in this? Bush isn't exactly loved you know..
Don't worry, psych-ops will take care of the brainwashing of the American people. As for the media, we control the left and the right!
Government: GREAT! Nice work all! Lets make the target date Sept 11 2001.
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Someone else saw how ridiculous this idea was...