[lbo-talk] Adam Hanieh, "Canadian Union Takes Important Step against Israeli Apartheid"

[Bill Bartlett]

At 6:50 PM -0700 4/6/06, Angelus Novus wrote:


>  > Criticism of Israel's "apartheid"-like policies
>>  could only be
>>  "anti-semitic" to the extent that support for
>>  apartheid is an
>>  intrinsic part of being semitic. Are you arguing
>>  that support for
>>  apartheid is an intrinsic being semitic?
>
>Hello Bill,
>
>Perhaps the quotation marks I used around "apartheid"
>did not make my intent clear enough.  No, I am not
>arguing what you attribute to me above.
>
>What I am saying is that Israel's policies are not
>apartheid, and that use of the word "apartheid" in
>this context is just a way of trying to win a kind of
>moral legitimacy for opposition to the occupation.

That's a fair enough argument in itself. To the extent that there is 
some doubt about whether Israel's policy is really "apartheid", 
rather than downright genocide.  But you seem to be making the same 
mistake you accuse others of when you  accuse them of being 
"anti-semitic". I have explained why "anti-semitic" is inappropriate, 
you don't dispute my logic, so I will presume you are conceding my 
point.

>Which I think is not necessary.  The opposition to
>occupation is valid and correct without resorting to
>exaggeration of the sort by using the word
>"apartheid."

I wouldn't say it was exaggeration. Just the opposite. Apartheid was 
a policy of rigid segregation, I don't think actual elimination of 
non-whites was any more than a gleam in the eye of the South African 
apartheid regime. The same can't be said for the genocidal Israeli 
regime.

>Otherwise, one would have to say that any state
>practicing a military occupation is practicing
>apartheid.  So is the U.S. invasion of Iraq also
>"apartheid?"  I think it's criminal and stupid, but
>it's not "apartheid."

I think the Israeli policies that are considered "apartheid" are not 
so much related to the occupied territories, but the policies 
practiced in Israel proper. The systematic segregation of and 
discrimination against non-jewish citizens of Israel are reminiscent 
of the South African Regime. Of course these crimes against humanity 
pale into insignificance compared to the crimes of the occupied 
territories, but that doesn't mean we should just overlook them.

>  > Merely singling out Israel for criticism, for
>>  policies carried out by
>>  every other nation state, is not necessarily
>>  anti-semitic.
>
>But I would say that it most definitely is.  Quite
>obviously so.

You give no reason, is that because you have no reason? Is it, in 
other words, a religious tenet of yours? I wouldn't like to get into 
a religious argument.

>  >However, to be fair, I
>>  hardly think that
>>  genocide is the normal policy of "any nation-state
>>  would in a similar
>>  situation."
>
>Well, this is just silly.  Are you saying there is an
>Israeli plan to physically exterminate the
>Palestinians?

Yes. Are you saying there isn't?

>   This is like NATO using the word
>"genocide" to describe anything the Serbs did during
>the Yugoslav civil war.  It cheapens the term.

My definition of the term "genocide" is consistent with the official 
definition adopted by the UN is 1948.

http://www.hrweb.org/legal/genocide.html#Article%202.5

Genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to 
destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or 
religious group, as such:

     * (a) Killing members of the group;
     * (b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
     * (c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life 
calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in 
part;
     * (d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
* (e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

Perhaps you are relying on some idiosyncratic definition? Otherwise, 
it is hard to see how you could fail to admit that "genocide" is 
precisely the policy and intent of the criminal Israeli regime.

As for your notion that a regime that is guilty of war crimes and 
practices systematic crimes against humanity is no more deserving of 
condemnation than any other state, I think this sort of attitude 
cheapens humanity. I'd rather not be part of any "left" that takes 
such an inhuman stand.

Bill Bartlett
Bracknell Tas