[lbo-talk] Grappling with Heidegger

andie nachgeborenen andie_nachgeborenen at yahoo.com
Sun May 7 15:41:58 PDT 2006


Heidegger wrote some lovely history/sociology/philosophy of early modern science, anthologiozed in the David Farrell Krell Basic Readings anthology, that anticipates Kuhn and is deeply informed by real solid knowledge of early modern science. Heidegger was an authoritarian, worse, a Nazi, but you'll need to do more work than that to makle me think that makes him not worth reading. I don't even mind his anti-science -- mostly anti-technology/anti-modernist -- stuff, though I don'ta gree with it; it's good to have us Enlightenment types challenged for Millean reasons. Besides, I think her has a point about technology, though he misindentifies root causes.

But I read a lot of right wing philosophy/economics/political thought and am notorious on this list as a fan of Hayek (for example). Hayek of course was an anti-Nazi and a libertarian. I also think very well of Nietzsche, a great writer and if not an authoritarian (too uninterested in politics for that) at least an anti-democratic and an anti-socialist.

What philosophers one considers unreadable depends on a lot of things. Training, patience, your purpose. Aristotle is brutally hard. Plato, a great proser stylist, is no breeze. The scholastics are dry as dust but some (Abelard, Aquinas, Occam -- not Scotus!) are clear as crystal, if you learn the moves. Spinoza's prety opaque. Your pal Hume is a great stylist but not so easy as he looks, also very conservative. Kant is great, but so is Hegel, and he tops the unreadability constest. ANd I recall a certain German emigre who wrote an unfinished Critique of Political Economy that has considerable stylsitic merit but if fucking hard to understand . . . .

--- Jerry Monaco <monacojerry at gmail.com> wrote:


> Andie
>
> Seriously, I have read all of these folks. They
> mostly speak gibberish in
> order to purff themselves up. It would be better if
> they remained silent.
> Better for the world and better for clear thought.
> And better for political
> activism. Practically everything that Heidegger
> said about science,
> physics, etc. is mainly anti-science.
>
> One can take Heidegger seriously as an example of
> reaction against
> enlightenment values. As for me give me Voltaire or
> Hume anyday.
>
> In the end the only unreadable philosopher worth
> reading is Kant. But I
> don't really feel like debating the declension of
> intellectual culture as
> represented by the anti-humanists and, as for
> Heidegger, a disgusting
> authoritarian.
>
> Jerry
>
> On 5/7/06, andie nachgeborenen
> <andie_nachgeborenen at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > Actually Heidegger's post Being & Time writing is
> > _really_ beautiful German. The translations do not
> do
> > him justice, nowhere near.
> >
> > And is your contrast supposed to to whom and on
> what
> > grounds? Quine, whose major thesis (the
> indeterminacy
> > of translation) no two people can agree on what it
> > means? Davidson, similarly opaque? Rawls, whose
> > writing is a crime against the English language?
> > Sellars? Give me a break.
> >
> > Foucault can write perfectly well -- his prose not
> > fancy, but clear and serviceable. Zizek has a nice
> > breezy accessible journalistic style. Merleau
> Ponty
> > writes like an analytical philosopher, for good or
> ill
> > (says one who was trained in that tradition).
> >
> > As you know, you can get a PhD in philosophy from
> a
> > top school without ever looking at a word of
> > Heidegger. I actually think he's a major
> philosopher
> > though, one of the 20th century greats, well worth
> the
> > effort of headbanging you have have top do to get
> your
> > head around the main points.
> >
> > --- Jerry Monaco <monacojerry at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > On 5/7/06, Chris Doss <lookoverhere1 at yahoo.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hell, without Heidegger there wouldn't even BE
> a
> > > > Zizek. Or a Sartre, Foucault, Derrida,
> > > Merleau-Ponty,
> > > > Lacan, Arendt, Marcuse, Adorno and probably a
> > > couple
> > > > of dozen other thinkers I'm in too much of a
> hurry
> > > to
> > > > remember right now. What did Arendt call him
> --
> > > the
> > > > Hidden King?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Does that mean all these people might actually
> have
> > > to learn to write? I'll
> > > admit an affection for Sartre in his popular
> mode
> > > and Merleau-Ponty when
> > > writing about the senses.... But the world
> would
> > > have been better off
> > > without Heidegger. At least trees and graduate
> > > classes would have been
> > > better off.
> > >
> > > --- ravi <gadfly at exitleft.org> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > At around 7/5/06 8:46 am, Chris Doss wrote:
> > > > > > Cuz he's the most influential philosopher
> > > since
> > > > > Hegel?
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > You mean not Zizek?!! ;-)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Nu, zayats, pogodi!
> > > >
> > > >
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> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Jerry Monaco's Philosophy, Politics, Culture
> Weblog
> > > is
> > > Shandean Postscripts to Politics, Philosophy,
> and
> > > Culture
> > > http://monacojerry.livejournal.com/
> > >
> > > His fiction, poetry, weblog is
> > > Hopeful Monsters: Fiction, Poetry, Memories
> > > http://www.livejournal.com/users/jerrymonaco/
> > >
> > > Notes, Quotes, Images - From some of my reading
> and
> > > browsing
> > >
> http://www.livejournal.com/community/jerry_quotes/
> > > > ___________________________________
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>
>
> --
> Jerry Monaco's Philosophy, Politics, Culture Weblog
> is
> Shandean Postscripts to Politics, Philosophy, and
> Culture
> http://monacojerry.livejournal.com/
>
> His fiction, poetry, weblog is
> Hopeful Monsters: Fiction, Poetry, Memories
> http://www.livejournal.com/users/jerrymonaco/
>
> Notes, Quotes, Images - From some of my reading and
> browsing
> http://www.livejournal.com/community/jerry_quotes/
> > ___________________________________
>
http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/mailman/listinfo/lbo-talk

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