--- Luke Weiger <lweiger at umich.edu> wrote:
> I didn't miss your "mea culpa." You missed the
> mark. As John said, whether
> animals share some of our psychological capacities
> and traits or not is a
> matter of fact (it's possible to argue, as you did
> earlier, that we don't
> have enough to data to answer one way or the other,
> but the argument becomes
> less and less plausible with each new finding of the
> sort John cited). To
> what degree we should care whether or not they share
> these capacities is a
> matter of morals.
>
> -- Luke
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2006 16:24:59 -0800
> From: Miles Jackson <cqmv at pdx.edu>
> Subject: Re: [lbo-talk] Become a vegetarian or rot
> in hell!!! (Mea
> To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
> Message-ID: <455123DB.50002 at pdx.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1;
> format=flowed
>
> Luke Weiger wrote:
>
> >
> > Right. Unfortunately, Miles often seems to miss
> the distinction between
> > the factual and the normative.
>
> I think you just missed the mea culpa. Yes, I was
> wrong to provide
> logical arguments and evidence to challenge a moral
> belief. That was a
> stupid mistake. I do think the "often" is uncalled
> for; check the
> archives, but I believe this is the first thread in
> which I confused
> factual and normative claims.
>
> Miles
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2006 19:57:19 -0600
> From: "Robert Naiman "
> <naiman at justforeignpolicy.org>
> Subject: [lbo-talk] Post Your Anti-War Election
> Results Here:
> To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
> Message-ID:
>
<bd75d63d0611071757w6f015ab7r1433e198b86bdd33 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1;
> format=flowed
>
> Post Your Anti-War Election Results Here:
> Show the Media and the Congressional Leadership *IT
> IS* a Referendum on the
> War
>
>
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mark-weisbrot-and-robert-naiman/post-your-antiwar-electi_b_33570.html
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2006 19:20:03 -0800 (PST)
> From: Wojtek Sokolowski <swsokolowski at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [lbo-talk] Re: In God's country
> To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
> Message-ID:
>
<20061108032003.26658.qmail at web38204.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
>
>
> --- Jim Straub <rustbeltjacobin at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > I wonder what Wojtek thinks of the massive upsurge
> > of charismatic, or
> > pentacostal (grouped in the term "renewalist")
> > christianity in all the
> > places mentioned. From Guatamala to Poland to
> Kenya
> > to
> > Brazil to China, renewalist christianity is the
> > fastest growing mass
> > religion in much of the world, to the extent that
> a
> > recent global audit
> > found it to be the faith of upwards of a billion
> > people.
>
> [WS:] Quite frankly, I do not think much of it. I
> am
> not a populist, and the fact that a billion people
> do
> or do not something, be it religious worship or a
> hamburger eating contest, does not impress me one
> way
> or the other. I do not find it entertaining, but I
> do
> not like country music or hip hop either.
>
> My only concern is the material outcome of these
> activities, and only inasmuch as it interferes with
> my
> life style. Thus far, this interference is limited
> minor concerns such as trash left behind, noise, or
> parking space shortage created by attendees of three
> churches located within one block distance from
> where
> I live. This is a real problem because unlike other
> popular entertainment services, such as bars,
> amusement parks, or strip joints, churches are
> exempt
> from taxation, yet they use municipal services and
> resources, and thus strain city budgets and
> contribute
> to a decline of the quality of urban life.
>
> There is also a slight possibility that this kind of
> religiosity creates a fertile ground for right wing
> mobilization. Indeed, recent Republican electoral
> victories were accomplished in a significant part by
> mobilizing evangelical x-tian networks. Again, this
> is of some concern because churches are exempt from
> taxation and are not supposed to engage in political
> activities - but I do not lose much sleep over it.
>
> I would also like to reiterate the point I already
> made - namely that there are many different forms
> and
> faces of religiosity - even within relatively small
> groups. Therefore, one can always find very strange
> bedfellows in most churches - fascist bigot standing
> next to human rights activist, a sage sitting next
> to
> a philistine, and a bleeding heart worshiping the
> same
> deity as a hate monger. Therefore, the fact that
> you
> met good god fearing x-tian folk in your travels in
> hyper-reality (to borrow a phrase from Umberto Eco)
> does not necessarily mean that Hofstadter was wrong
> and that there is no deeply seated
> anti-intellectualism to which religion serves as a
> vehicle. I have certainly seen both.
>
> One final comment - if a revolutionary change must
> be
> accomplished by succumbing to the popular
> superstition
> and desires to worship the supernatural - you can
> keep
> your revolution.
>
> Wojtek
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
> Sponsored Link
>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2006 19:29:23 -0800 (PST)
> From: andie nachgeborenen
> <andie_nachgeborenen at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [lbo-talk] Re: In God's country
> To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
> Message-ID:
> <20061108032923.91617.qmail at web50412.mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Bush talk to God and God tells him things . . . .
> Like
> "Invade Iraq," "lower taxes on the rich," "Destroy
> the
> welfare state."
>
> --- martin <mschiller at pobox.com> wrote:
>
> > On Nov 7, 2006, at 1:34 PM, Jim Straub wrote:
> >
> >
> > > In fact, the most dominant common denominator of
> > bible-believing
> > > christianity is a personal converstion
> experience
> > of singular
> > > importance in one's life
> >
> > That little finger slip left me wide-eyed. I've
> been
> > posing the
> > question to as many professed believers as I could
> > for a long time re
> > their personal epiphany, hoping to meet one who
> had
> > a conversation.
> > I've never gotten any response ! Must be a
> > personality thing ! <g>
> >
> > Martin
> >
> > ___________________________________
> >
>
http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/mailman/listinfo/lbo-talk
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail.
> http://new.mail.yahoo.com
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2006 22:37:07 -0500 (EST)
> From: Michael Pollak <mpollak at panix.com>
> Subject: Re: [lbo-talk] GOP: beware of exit polls!
> To: lbo-talk <lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org>
> Message-ID:
> <Pine.NEB.4.64.0611072233030.22999 at panix1.panix.com>
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII;
> format=flowed
>
>
> On Tue, 7 Nov 2006, Doug Henwood wrote:
>
> > <http://gop.com/News/Read.aspx?ID=6718>
> >
> > "[Mitofsky] Said That For Reasons That Remain
> Unclear, Democratic Voters
> > Are More Likely Than Republicans To Agree To
> Interview Requests From
> > Pollsters."
>
> That has to be true -- because otherwise the 2004
> elections were stolen.
>
> But I love the way he makes it clear that that's the
> only reason: by giving
> as his only argument Reasons That Remain Unclear.
>
> Now there is an example of faith creating reality.
>
> Michael
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
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>
> End of lbo-talk Digest, Vol 35, Issue 55
> ****************************************
>
>
> ___________________________________
>
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