> If they are unrealistic it matters not whether they are anarchist,
> fascist, socialist, etc. principles.
> I move within the real world and so I move within it accordingly. (JT)
Your use of the word "unrealistic" is a subjective criticism. I think my anarchism is realistics and highly pragmatic.
> It isn't an either/or scenario.
> I person can work to abolish the state and still vote for a
> Congressional Rep. or Senator who favors Universal Health Care or some
> other incremental change that will help millions of peoples real lives.
Maybe you can, but anarchists disagree with this position.
I'm really impressed at how much members of this list cling to the idea that voting changes things. This is so out of touch with how most Americans see the political system. I think that this has to do with the fact that most list members are highly educated and thus highly indoctrinated into believing that the political system not only still works, but could be used to achieve radical reforms like universal health care. This is almost a belief system akin to the one that afflicts the 9/11 Turth Movement/
> It isn't as if voting takes so much time that one just cannot fit it
> into busy schedule.
Voting is not just something that take 15 minutes to do every two years. Ther is all the time we have to waste talking about voting, like on this list, which is talking about a fucking presidential election that is 15 months away. An election THAT WON'T CHANGE ANYTHING.
Want to argue with me on that point? I'll just trot out Barack Obama's comments yesterday when he was trying to act tough on foreign policy?
> We frivolously waste more time per year than anyone actually spends
> voting in this country.
The anarchist opposition to voting has nothing to do with how long it takes to actually vote. Anarchists don't oppose voting because one has to waste 15 minutes every two years (or twice a year) voting.
> The idea that not voting is some principled stance is BS.
I could start referencing all of the anarchist literature that supports this principled stance. It goes back 150 years.
> That doesn't mean voting in every election but refusing to vote in any
> is childish, not principled.
Will you even admit the fact that anarchists are different than social democrats or liberals or whoever?
> When Chuck writes "If anarchists go out and engage in direct action on
> the health care issue, we're more likely to help more mainstream
> reformers than we would with voting." he demonstrates some strange
> binary thinking.
> Why must it be one or the other? Why can't you engage in whatever direct
> action you want and still go vote for a candidate who favors UHC?
Jesus Christ! Why do I bother?
Should I provide the URL to the Anarchist FAQ again?
> Where do you buy clothes that doesn't support the state and corporate
> structure you oppose?
What the fuck does buying clothes have to do with this discussion?
> Where do you buy food that doesn't?
Because I have to fucking eat. If there is one thing that anarchists understand all too well, it's that you can't escape the capitalist system without building a rocketship and moving to Mars.
> You're mistaken when you write "Most Americans don't vote. They clearly
> reject the current political system and see through it."
> They don't see through anything, they are apathetic because they feel
> disaffected and powerless. They feel that way because the system
> encourages them to. If they saw through that they would be more, not
> less, inclined to vote.
No, I'm not mistaken. Try looking at the polls. The idea that Americans don't vote because they are apathetic is a myth promoted by the corporate liberal media.
> Most non-voters aren't not voting as some principled stance as you claim
> to be.
They aren't voting because they see the system as a sham. Perhaps if you talked to more people you'd hear this.
This widespread disgust with the political system by average Americans is one reason that voting anarchists are so absurd. Hey! We have a chance to be in the same camp as millions of Americans!
Chuck