[lbo-talk] Tariq Ramadan and Islamic Socialism

BklynMagus magcomm at ix.netcom.com
Tue Feb 20 11:23:42 PST 2007



> Till recently, this was not at all an uncommon view
among even mainline Protestants and Reform Jews, and it is still a common view among probably a majority of Catholics, evangelical Christians, and so on

Agreed. That is why the pressure must be kept up and even intensified. Hate should be exposed.


> and some denominations, like the Episcopalians and
Anglicans, whose leadership embraced gay men and lesbians as equal members of fellowship, are continuing to have a sharp debate within each denomination, which may lead to a split.

About time.


> But, if gay and lesbian Episcopalians, for instance, had
said, "Hell, the change is too slow, so I'll just say goodbye to my church," even the changes that have already happened in the Episcopalian Church would not have come about.

But look what just happened in Tanzinia. Maybe it is better to quit these institutions and do the best to destabilize them. Make them pay a price for their hate. (Just like leaving the Democratic Party).


> A majority of people in the world have yet to get to even
this point, of mutual respect for persons despite disagreements over beliefs and practices, regarding people of other sexual orientations and/or religious faiths. Should we write off much of the world on account of that?

Not write them off, but continue the attacks while fending off their hatred and oppression.


> To take more concrete examples, many (or perhaps all) of
people who are held in Guantanamo, undocumented Mexican workers exploited or deported, etc. in all likelihood have a view that is more negative than Ramadan's toward GLBT individuals . . . Should we say that they don't deserve our solidarity because of their view of GLBT individuals.

No, we should acknowledge that we have solidarity in one area, but at the same time acknowledge the danger their beliefs pose to queers if and when they are acted upon.


> we have a better chance of building solidarity with upper-class,
out-and-proud GLBT individuals of the West, regardless of their views about other issues?

Same process. Acknowledge solidarity on queer issues and then criticize their positions on other issues. I do it all the time and have even been effective in changing minds.

Brian



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