Doug Henwood
> CB: Ignore the fact that to non-BDSM people, that some BDSM seems to>
simulate violent acts toward women, and therefore may feed into the>
misogynist mentality of men who beat/rape women.
It doesn't. The burden of proof is on you to substantiate such an assertion. Dominant male/submissive female is not the, um, dominant form of BDSM; I don't see how a minority discourse within a minority discourse (and one that's reached the public consciousness only in the last decade or two) can have much of an influence on men beating women, which is a pretty pervasive practice and has been for a long time.
^^^ CB: Well, there's a fact that I kind of guessed at from these discussions, of the type I meant the BDSMers' need to emphasize, as contra your claim, the common sense burden is on the BDSMers in this discussion, since it's the BDSMers who are complaining that they are maligned.
^^^^^
> If you
> are trying to convince people that there isn't misogynist mentality or
> torturer's mentality in it, you need to think about the obvious,
> and stop
> acting like it's obvious how BDSM doesn't seem like purveying violent
> mentality.
Appealing to the "obvious" isn't much of an argument. You're a lawyer, Charles - what do you think a judge would make of that?
^^^^^ CB; There's plenty of stuff that an advocate relies on the jury to see as obvious. _Res ipsa loquitur_ is a legal concept. There's also judicial notice , which is asking the judge to take notice of the obvious ( NYC is in North America would be an example)
^^^^^
>
> CB: How do you know that ? Maybe most domestically violent men and
> rapists
> are just sadists trying to bring out the "inner masochist" in the
> women they
> violate ?
No. Most sadistic men (and women) wouldn't harm someone who didn't very explicitly ask for it.
^^^^^^ CB: The burden is on you to prove that. What an amazingly uniform group these sadists are. Uniform like no other human group I know. Amazingly self-disciplined too.
^^^
^^^^
> You need to explain in detail how BDSM/kink is
> not like domestic violence or rape.
In one, the recipient of abuse asks for it, even craves it. In the other, s/he doesn't. How could it be more different?
^^^^^^ CB: What an amazingly binary world these BDSMers/rapists live in.