But most mainstream people who are not into B&D know nothing about it. I
didn't suggest that you didn't know people who preferred mainstream
style sex. I said only that if you are surprised, as you claim you were,
that many mainstream people think like Charles you must be sheltered
from contact with a great deal of these people. If not why the surprise?
>
>> I believe Charles admitted he knew nothing about BDSM so why do you
>> expect him to know how it differsfrom other forms of violence? [JT]
>
> Because this conversation has happened on this list before
> and Charles feigns ignorance of bdsm every time. I do not
> think he doesn't about know about bdsm, but has inflexible
> ideas about it and tries to deflect attention from this
> intransience by continually asking for information. [Brian]
I think he doesn't know about BDSM and proves that with his posts. You
can present him with all the information you care to to inform him but
that does not guarantee that he has been informed. The surprise you
mention wasn't just with Charles but the very idea that anyone could
make an erroneous connection between BDSM and sexual assault or abuse.
It sucks that many people make this mistake in their thinking but being
surprised by it suggests little exposure to it. People are seldom
surprised by things they are well acquainted with.
> Brian once told me that there's a real sense in which a lot of Masters
> are really their subordinate's subordinate, because in dominating
> the subordinate they're doing what the subordinate wants. [Andie]
>
> True. You need to be so hyper-aware of your slave's abilities, limits,
> desires, fears, hopes that the Master is actually being controlled by
> the slave's capacities and capabilities. But as I added when speaking to
> Andie: I only learned this by practicing bdsm. I could share what I
> learned with him, but the certainty of the knowledge is only gained in
> experience.
>
> Also props to Andie. I never have imagined that me, Mengele and
> Torqemada would ever -- could ever -- end up together in the same
> sentence. [Brian]
But apparently you weren't surprised when Andie wrote "Probably most
people who are not knowledgeable about BDSM don't grasp this
distinction. They hear "sadist"
and they think of Dr. Mengele or Torquemada, not Brian Dauth.'
This is Charles point exactly. I don't know if Charles has a difficult
time making this distinction himself but it appears he does. [JT]
> "SM play can challenge structural social inequality." That's pure
> wishful thinking. [Yoshie}
>
> I do not think so. Regular play in the dungeon can be a mind altering
> experience. It is liberatring in the best sense (for those people who
> are open to the possibilities).
Too many B&D practitioners I have met were deeply conservative people.
Sex play does not make one more politically radical. I wish it did, but
there is certainly no evidence this is so. It is as Yoshie put it
"wishful thinking". [JT]
John Thornton