But flattery will get you nowhere. Consent, even informed consent, is no guarantee that a relationship is not oppressive. To remind a person that they answered "I do", doesn't justify an oppressive and exploitative marriage. Clearly you have to examine the context in which the person gave this consent.
And regardless of the issue of consent, I still wouldn't accept the notion that someone who gets their kicks out of inflicting pain and/or humiliation is entirely sound mentally. Perhaps I'm old fashioned or perhaps it is simply wishful thinking on my part to reject the idea that this is a normal and healthy way to interact with someone you love. But I don't like the implications and prefer to believe that it is a symptom of either a psychological, or more likely a deeper social, problem.
Bill Bartlett Bracknell Tas
At 8:48 PM -0800 9/1/07, andie nachgeborenen wrote:
>As usual, Bill, you are talking bullshit about things
>you know nothing about. I wrote a lengthy
>philosophical excursus on the limitations of consent
>theory and how they didn't apply here, but decided you
>don't deserve to have it. I'll post it another time if
>other people think it's worthwhile. What astounds me
>is how amazingly arrogant and invincibly ignorant an
>apparently intelligent person can be. You obviously
>missed a calling as a professor, where those traits
>could have been put to good use and probably gotten
>you a good position.
>
>--- Bill Bartlett <billbartlett at aapt.net.au> wrote:
>
>> At 5:21 PM -0500 9/1/07, BklynMagus wrote:
>>
>> >WS:
>> >> If the only thing that separates an oppressive
>> relationship form
> > >>non-oppressive one is the so-called consent of the
>> subjugated part
>> >>- this is a really flimsy defense indeed.
>> >
>> >How is consent flimsy? I usually add the modifier
>> "informed" before
>> >consent, but consent is powerful in my experience.
>>
>> Bullshit. People consent to many things they'd
>> prefer not to consent to.
>>
>>
>> > > So, it might help if you explained in detail
>> how BDSM is actually
>> >only superficially similar to or actually not at
>> all like domestic
>> >violence against women.
>> >
>> >CONSENT (sorry for the caps. I realize that if a
>> person is blind to
>> >an answer in lower case, capitalization is no
>> solution, but the
>> >truth is what it is).
>>
>> Consent does not exclude the possibility of
>> exploitation.
>>
>>
>> >As far as I know, there is no evidence that
>> celebrating flogging
>> >enhances either a person's sense of male privilege
>> or the likelihood
>> >of their commiting an act of rape or domestic
>> violence. A person
>> >who rapes or abuses another person is mentally ill.
>>
>> And a person who gets a thrill out of humiliating or
>> inflicting pain
>> on others, is not? I find that a bit difficult to
>> accept at face
>> value.
>>
>> Bill Bartlett
>> Bracknell Tas
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