Bristle away, Miles. People didn't think of themselves as in "classes" or having "governments." Or, if Foucault is right, as individual people. Why do we have to take their own seld-description as the last word? Gay is what we call people who prefer same saexrelationships. Absolutely bothing wrong with saying Alexander the Great was gay, as long as we make the obvious caveats about the facts that he say thsi differently than we do and it played it a dfferent role in his societ(ies). (Which were what: Macedonian? Greek? Hellene? Mediterranean? Persian? Afghan --oops! Bactrian. Indian? Mesopotaniam? North Afriacn? Egyptiab? Something he created from all the above?) This is so obvious I can't believe I have to say it on a list full of Marxists who basically live by vcaharctertizing people in ways they would reject, not understand, and even find highly objectionable. Who do you think you are, Peter Winch?
--- Miles Jackson <cqmv at pdx.edu> wrote:
> Dennis Redmond wrote:
> > Miles wrote:
> >
> >
> >>The historical and anthopological record clearly
> contradicts this
> >>claim. Yes, same-sex sexual relations occur in
> most societies, but
> >>the linkage of that behavior to a stable,
> exclusive sexual identity is
> >>not a human universal.
> >
> >
> > I never said sexual identity was stable or
> exclusive, my point is that
> > same-sex desire and practice has been around
> forever. The literary,
> > cultural and anthropological record is unambiguous
> on this point. How that
> > desire is mediated and transformed into social
> identities is another
> > question entirely.
> >
> > -- DRR
>
> You claimed that "lesbians and gays" have been
> around forever. The
> point I'm trying to emphasize is that many people in
> many societies have
> same-sex desire and sexual relations, and they do
> not identify
> themselves or others as "lesbian" or "gay". It
> appears that we pretty
> much agree; I just bristle when people use modern,
> historically produced
> categories (like those of sexual identity) and
> project them into the
> past to manufacture false universality.
>
> Miles
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