My last comment on this until after the general election:
I know the Democrats are going to betray us. I said so. I know they are going to fold under pressure. I said so. I said that was the one immutable law of social science. I said about Obama and this goes for any Democrat prez candidate that he won't accomplish a 10th of what could do or a hundred of we want him to do. If that sounds like giddiness and Donkey flag waving to you, what would cold eyed sobriety sound like?
I'm not even going to say that "standing for something" in the purist mode is worthless if you don't accomplish something, even if it is modest. I don't believe that. The purists help push the spectrum to debate to the left. We need that. I just wish that everyone on this deal would realize that people need to be doing whatever they can, in whatever venue they work, stomaching as much as they can wherever they are, without insisting that theirs is the only way.
I am now done. Write me about this after the 2008 election, at which time I may or may not respond. Further discussion is a waste of time and I will not participate.
One more thing. Please cal me "Andie." There is a reason I use a pen name on the least. Thank you.
--- amadeus amadeus <amadeus482000 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Dennis paints an accurate picture of donkey-flag
> waving. How many folks on the list feel that the
> propaganda of "pragmatism" or "realism" (or whatever
> you want to call it) has already worked its way down
> the slippery slope to the propaganda of dogmatism?
> I do. Which is very frightening, particularly in
> these times.
> The only analogy that comes to mind is CP members
> and supporters during the Stalin era, who complained
> with futility for decades that they simply didn't
> see an alternative.
> I'm imagining a US politcal media during the
> pre-purgative Stalin years:
> Trotsky attended Hebrew school, says Stalin camp.
> A pundit takes the microphone: I just don't think
> Zinoviev is playing well, particularly with the
> Kirov allegations on his hands...
>
> Dennis Perrin <dperrin at comcast.net> wrote: Justin --
>
> > Maybe if you can't stomach that you should be
> doing
> > something else, we need people doing all sorts of
> > things, but please let's avoid the more-pure, more
> > principled, and more radical than thou debate this
> > time around? Futile hope.
>
> What is even more galling to me are the "realistic"
> libs who bemoan lefty
> "purists." Look, you wanna support/work for/vote
> Obama, Hillary, whoever, go
> right ahead. The system is built that way and there
> is no electoral escape
> on the horizon. But please spare us your high-minded
> reasons for doing so.
> I've worked for, canvassed for, answered phones for,
> driven elderly voters
> to the polls for, and even voted for many mainstream
> Dems in my political
> lifetime, most recently Kerry/Edwards, which was a
> real delight, dealing
> with the apolitical Dem operatives who treated their
> volunteers like shit
> and didn't know fact one about geopolitical matters.
> All they cared about
> was winning elections. I know I'm not the only one
> on the list who's worked
> this end of the corrupt, American street. And we
> already know the score
> about the Dems, from personal experience. All this
> has done is further
> sicken me about American politics, while further
> radicalizing me to the
> reality that serious change is necessary for
> long-term survival. How that is
> to be done, I don't think anyone has a real idea,
> apart from organizing
> against the war, and perhaps certain economic
> issues. But waving donkey
> banners and getting giddy because the Dems raise the
> minimum wage to where
> the working poor can buy an extra Happy Meal at
> McDonald's is even more
> cynical than being "pure." At least the "purists"
> stand for something.
>
> Dennis
>
>
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