[lbo-talk] Liberalism (Was Re: Nietzsche)

Robert Wrubel bobwrubel at yahoo.com
Wed Jul 4 16:33:19 PDT 2007


Bill,

I can agree with one part of your argument: socialism in any form will have to defend itself against an "other", but that other is more likely to be a capitalist enemy than a majority "living in want." The majority living in want can simply join the socialist minority.

I agree that any little socialist cooperative functioning today is partly or mainly a fantasy, since in many ways it still depends on a surrounding capitalist infrastructure. But, you have to start somewhere. I dont believe in imposing government from the top. You just wind up with another form of entrenched power.

Bill Bartlett <billbartlett at aapt.net.au> wrote:

At 10:01 AM -0700 4/7/07, Robert Wrubel wrote:


> Socialism is often misunderstood by being equated with a national
>state government, but there is no reason why socialist forms of
>government shouldnt begin at the local level, in city councils,
>neighborhoods, even apartment buildings.

Actually, there is a very good reason why socialism cannot operate in isolation.

The aim of the struggle to end class society is freedom from insecurity and want. We want it for all of humanity, rather than just ourselves. Not only because it is possible, or because it is just, but because it is the only security that is sustainable in the long term.

However, that kind of freedom and security cannot be enjoyed by a minority and still be called socialism. It can then only be seen as privilege, in the sense that those living in the municipality, neighbourhood or even apartment building, would be enjoying benefits which they are unable to share with those outside of this privileged enclave. Ultimately, they would likely be forced to defend themselves and their privileged lifestyle from the great majority of people around them, living in want. Perhaps by force, but at least by resort to the systems of law traditionally used to protect the haves from the have-nots.

Basically, a socialist enclave is a utopian fantasy and a very dangerous one at that.

Bill Bartlett Bracknell Tas ___________________________________ http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/mailman/listinfo/lbo-talk



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