[lbo-talk] Raúl on the 26th + Fidel on Cuba's Self Criticism

John Thornton jthorn65 at sbcglobal.net
Mon Jul 30 13:59:43 PDT 2007



>> Cuba is a typical post-revolutionary state? (JT)
>>
>
> It must be, because Yoshie says that it's self-evident that the Cuban
> revolution was susscessful. Given how other lefties defend Cuba, it's
> safe to assume that Cuba demonstrates the kind of revolution that some
> people on this list want. (Chuck)
>

I didn't ask you wrote Yoshie thinks or wrote I asked you how you felt Cuba could be classified as a "typical small country coup". What makes it so typical? It seems quite different than any other small country coup I am familiar with. (JT)
>
>> I never knew how successful the other Caribbean, South American, and
>> Central American states that underwent similar revolutions really were.
>> Which one of them sends as many doctors abroad as Cuba? (JT)
>>
>
> I really don't know. Was the Cuban revolution about medical care? (Chuck)
>
As much as it was about anything. The point of revolution isn't to have a revolution but to meaningfully increase the quality of life of a countries citizens and grant them access to the means of replicating life. Cuba hasn't done it perfectly (far from it) but it certainly has succeeded much more than any other small country coup you would care to name.


>> What other post-revolutionary states have statistical similarities to
>> Cuba and what are they? (JT)
>>
>
> Are you really arguing that Cuba had a revolution? Scary. Let's hope
> that there aren't any more like Cuba's. I'd hate to live in that kind of
> "post-revolutionary" situation. (Chuck)
>
It was most definitely a revolution. It wasn't the revolution you advocate but you do not define what is or isn't a revolution. The fact that you would prefer not to live in a Cuban style post-revolutionary situation is totally irrelevant to the argument whether there was a revolution in Cuba. My Webster's Unabridged Dictionary defines revolution as: A complete and forcible overthrow of an established government or political system. A pervasive change in society and the social structure. You can argue over preferences for or against aspects of the post-revolutionary society but arguing it was not a revolution is utter nonsense. That's scary. (JT)


>> Cuba may not be utopia but it is hardly typical. (JT)
>>
>
> No, it's not typical. I hope that people really aren't holding up Cuba
> as some kind of model for a socialist revolution. You ain't going to win
> many people to your vision for revolution if you hold out Cuba as your
> model. (Chuck)
>
So now it's not typical where your earlier post claimed it was. Please make up your mind. (JT)
>
>> If this is the best rebuttal you have you don't a rebuttal at all. (JT)
>>
>
> Rebutting my comments with the standard leftist zombie argument about
> Cuban doctors is really laughable. (Chuck)
>
As against the standard anarchist argument void of any substance that you put forth? There is nothing standard in my comments except they place concerns for actually living people higher than a doctrinaire anarchist knee-jerk reaction to consider all states as failures with no regards to the living conditions of people within them. I never knew a huge increase in life expectancy as well as quality of life was considered laughable to anarchists. That too is scary. (JT)
>
>> Since the ultimate fate of Cuba's socialist state has yet to be written
>> it points out the folly of nothing except to sooth-seers. (JT)
>>
>
> Plenty has been written. 50 years of Castro is enough.
>
> Chuck
What has been written is sometimes informative but most often useless reactionary drivel with regards to Cuba. Nothing yet written points out the folly of attempting a social statist revolution in one country since the final history of Cuba is not known. Certainly one socialist state can never be truly a completely functional socialist state because of the world in which we live. The alternative however, massive simultaneous revolutions world-wide, is a child's simplistic dream. Rather than simplistic chiding of the failings of a states attempts at implementing socialism in the really existing world why don't you describe some actual realistic policies and detail how the Cubans could have done more with what they had? You know, constructive criticism, rather than dogmatic zombie-like criticisms of no substance. "50 years of Castro is enough"? Sounds like the standard leftist arguments you rail against. A meaningless soundbite with nothing substantive.

John Thornton



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