>> What criteria are you using for success and what do you mean by
>> "revolution."
>
> Don't ask me. Ask the people who are celebrating the "self-evident
> success of the Cuban revolution."
It is your comments I am responding to.
>> If by "revolution" you mean insurrection/coup then clearly it was
>> succesull as it did replace the state. And, as has been pointed out, the
>> Cuban state has exceeded expectations.
>
> It looks and smells like a coup to me. I don't see any signs of a
> participatory democracy that would be evident in an actual revolution.
I ask again, what do you mean by "actual revolution?" I suppose you will tell me to ask Yoshie again.
> It's exceeded expectations? Well, at least it's not North Korea.
Or more to the point, not Haiti, not Jamaica, etc. It seems to me appropriate to compare it to other countries in the same region, with a similar colonial history, no?
>> In so much as it was about the general poverty of the Cuban people, lack
>> of medical care being a component of poverty.
> Jesus christ. You are one of those zombie Castro-lovin leftists aren't
> you. Weren't you pretending to be an anarchist just a few days ago?
Not sure in what way this answers the comment you have quoted, but these sort of puerile posturing makes me embarrassed for you.
Anarchism does not mean sticking turds up your nose to shock your parents, please update your lexicon.
If you really refuse to accept that you and I are on the same side, you're backing yourself into a pretty exclusive, irrelevant corner.
>> What is your solution for feeding them more? Hating Castro?
> Are you saying that the Cuban revolution hasn't met expectations when it
> comes to feeding people.
Whose expectations?
>> What are the people in Haiti eating?
> We're talking about Cuba here, the glorious revolution in the Caribbean.
I am comparing Cuba to the other States in it's region.
BTW, look up L'Ouverture, Toussaint.
>>> Are you really arguing that Cuba had a revolution? Scary.
> No! I'm not the one arguing that Cuba had a revolution!
Did the Batista regime abdicate?
>> The Batista State was overthrown and a different State replaced it,
>> that, sometimes, is called a Revolution.
> It's a change in governments, for sure.
>> I agree that it is not my idea of revolution, but that is beside the point.
> What is your point?
That it is hard to justify the fact that Cuba would be better without Castro and the Cuban Revolution, as you seem be insisting, and impossible to justify from an anarchist perspective.
>> You would rather have lived under Batista?
> How about living under NOTHING. No Batista, No Castro. Anarchism.
Do you really believe that was an option?
>> Only if you consider the actual well being of the Cuban people as
>> secondary to your own feelings about Castro.
> I don't have any feelings about Castro. My interest here is to skewer
> the American leftists who worship Castro. It's nothing short of amazing
> that American leftists would continue to celebrate Castro, its glorious
> doctors, and its so-called "revolution" despite the ugly facts.
You are not skewering anyone, you are simply acting petulant and failing to make a coherent argument.
"American Leftist" do not worship Castro, they vote Democrat and worship John Edwards.
> If this is the social revolution you want to sell everybody else, don't
> be surprised when pretty much everybody tells you to take a flying leap
> off a pier in Havana.
What are you talking about? Selling the Cuban revolution? What?
>> I ask you again, do you really believe that changing the face of an
>> elite class eliminates it's dictatorship?
> You are asking the wrong person.
You are the one that repeats "50 years of Castro" ad nauseum, when we you ought to know the dictatorship of the elite has been going on for all of history and we are not going to change it by spreading the idea that replacing an individual figure head is a meaningful change when the property relations do not change.
> The Cuban people should have a right to self-determination without
> interference of the Unites States, American leftists, capitalists and
> everybody else who thinks they know what's good for them.
If the American people have not achieved it, do you think that the Imperial Hegemon will allow the Cubans to in their back yards?
Get real.
-- Dmytri Kleiner <dk at telekommunisten.net> editing text files since 1981
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