On Sep 12, 2007, at 11:50 PM, Mr. WD wrote:
> While I think Chuck0's attacks on various list members for expressing
> skepticism about his proposal for direct action against the war have
> been childish and uncalled for, I genuinely admire his ambition and
> basic optimism. I am all for realism, and I oppose suicidal
> adventurism, but I also support Big Thinking.
>
> If I thought there was any chance of getting a few tens of thousands
> of people to march on Independence, Mo. and shut that fucking ammo
> plant down, if only for a shift or two, I'd be all for it.
Sure, but that's a world rather different from the one we live in. It'd take a whole lot of preparation before we got there.
> First,
> this war is hugely unpopular,
That's an exaggeration. It's unpopular, but most Americans want to withdraw slowly. The surge is unpopular, but so is a quick exit. Split the difference, as always.
> and charging everyone as terrorists
> would not go down well with a large segment of the population -- after
> all, most people believe anti-terrorism laws should be used against
> actual terrorists. Second, even if only select protesters were
> prosecuted, there'd be a good chance they'd be turned into martyrs and
> the ensuing trial (there'd almost certainly be a trial!) could spark a
> national dialogue on inconvenient issues pertaining to the war and the
> PATRIOT act, etc...
That's really optimistic. I don't think you're right about that. The U.S. isn't big on national dialogue.
> And what if one or all of the defendants _won_? --
> that'd be extraordinarily embarrassing to the government. Third:
> nothing ventured, nothing gained. As Yoshie pointed out, ordinary
> people all over the world can be extremely brave, and regularly face
> off against regimes that are far more violent and lawless (at least
> domestically) than the one we need to deal with. Think about all the
> people who have been, and will be, arrested in the protests in Burma
What costs do Americans really pay, next to Burmese? The war is an abstraction to a lot of people. When violence gets materialized, as on 9/11, there's an epidemic of national self-pity.
> Okay, so maybe storming Independence isn't a viable option right now.
> Could we do something comparable in a more friendly location with
> better courts? Are there any smallish military installations in, say,
> California? Could you cause problems for them with, only a couple
> thousand people? A few hundred? These are the kinds of conversations
> we ought to be
> having instead of pissing and moaning about how much the Dems suck and
> there's nothing that can be done because the left is so paralyzed and
> impotent. I'm sick of that shit: it's depressing and boring and
> probably more self-fulfilling than we'd like to think.
You're in North Carolina, right? How much support for this do you think would exist around you? How many people are to the left of the Dems? How many NC'ians would rather worship at a Jesse Helms shrine?
Doug