> > If I thought there was any chance of getting a few tens of thousands
> > of people to march on Independence, Mo. and shut that fucking ammo
> > plant down, if only for a shift or two, I'd be all for it.
>
> Sure, but that's a world rather different from the one we live in.
> It'd take a whole lot of preparation before we got there.
Agreed. But my point is that it's important to think big. The question is, 'is the movement at a place where it's time to start thinking about coordinating major acts of civil disobedience?' As I said, the Independence, Mo. idea isn't feasible right now, but something less ambitious might be.
> > First,
> > this war is hugely unpopular,
>
> That's an exaggeration. It's unpopular, but most Americans want to
> withdraw slowly. The surge is unpopular, but so is a quick exit.
> Split the difference, as always.
According to the poll in the WSJ today, 26% of Americans want us to leave Iraq immediately. 37% have a more wishy-washy stance, but still basically want to bring this war to an end. That is a lot of fucking people! Are we really going to wait until some poll spits out a magic number and _then_ start sitting down and taking shit over? How do numbers like these compare to the kinds of numbers we saw during Vietnam? (not a rhetorical question, I'm curious)
Sometimes it only takes one big event to get something started. Many of us, I'm sure, have occupied campus administration buildings before: you get 15 to 20 people, sit down in the university President's office, spread the word, and by the end of the day you have hundreds of students sitting down in the administration building, a rally going on outside, TV cameras, profs. are teaching classes in the building, etc. Obviously, to have an impact nationally, you need something much, much bigger, but that could be done with the numbers we have -- we have roughly a quarter of the population that'd be sympathetic. What is that? 75 million people or so? Surely that's something to work with.
Jeez, sometimes I read the gloomy messages on this list and you'd think it was 2001 and we were organizing against the war on Afghanistan -- now *that* was a depressing time. I think we've reached the point where we can (and must) escalate our tactics. In any event, even if we aren't there yet, we ought to discuss where we need to be before escalation is appropriate instead of reiterating the same old lamentations.
> > actual terrorists. Second, even if only select protesters were
> > prosecuted, there'd be a good chance they'd be turned into martyrs and
> > the ensuing trial (there'd almost certainly be a trial!) could spark a
> > national dialogue on inconvenient issues pertaining to the war and the
> > PATRIOT act, etc...
>
> That's really optimistic. I don't think you're right about that. The
> U.S. isn't big on national dialogue.
Maybe, but Americans like the drama of trials and they're generally well-covered by the media. For this reason, I think a trial would be a good opportunity to get an anti-war, pro-civil liberties message out. Of course, hopefully it wouldn't come to that in the first place.
> > nothing ventured, nothing gained. As Yoshie pointed out, ordinary
> > people all over the world can be extremely brave, and regularly face
> > off against regimes that are far more violent and lawless (at least
> > domestically) than the one we need to deal with. Think about all the
> > people who have been, and will be, arrested in the protests in Burma
>
> What costs do Americans really pay, next to Burmese? The war is an
> abstraction to a lot of people. When violence gets materialized, as
> on 9/11, there's an epidemic of national self-pity.
That's a fair point, but it doesn't mean that Americans are incapable of taking great personal risks and standing up to the government. As I stated in response to Ravi's post last night, many of the leaders in the American civil rights movement were well-educated, middle class African Americans who were putting a lot on the line for something that must have seemed pretty abstract and far-fetched when that movement was in its infancy.
> > Okay, so maybe storming Independence isn't a viable option right now.
> > Could we do something comparable in a more friendly location with
> > better courts? Are there any smallish military installations in, say,
> > California? Could you cause problems for them with, only a couple
> > thousand people? A few hundred? These are the kinds of conversations
> > we ought to be
> > having instead of pissing and moaning about how much the Dems suck and
> > there's nothing that can be done because the left is so paralyzed and
> > impotent. I'm sick of that shit: it's depressing and boring and
> > probably more self-fulfilling than we'd like to think.
>
> You're in North Carolina, right? How much support for this do you
> think would exist around you? How many people are to the left of the
> Dems? How many NC'ians would rather worship at a Jesse Helms shrine?
Although North Carolina is the Massachusetts of the South, I will readily admit this state is not ready for civil disobedience at military installations -- give us 10 or 15 years, things are getting better. There's been some cool eco-related CD in Asheville, but that's about it.
I'm not saying every part of the country is ripe for civil disobedience, but I bet some parts are. I think California offers a lot of opportunities because there'd be more sympathy from locals, and in the state legislature. California is also in the 9th Circuit, which would be the best jurisdiction by far in which to fight terrorism charges against activists.
My only point is that we need to start talking about when escalation in the form of CD should begin. If not now, when? What kinds of CD would be most effective? What are the best targets? (I've always thought the floors of state legislature buildings would be good candidates for sit-ins-- they aren't guarded that well... ) What kinds of actions are most likely to advance the anti-war agenda and alienate the fewest number of wafflers? Instead of whining about our own impotence, let's start debating tactics.
-WD __________________________ thevanitywebsite.blogspot.com