--- Jordan Hayes <jmhayes at j-o-r-d-a-n.com> wrote:
> This statement shows clearly what the problem with
> your participation in
> this conversation has been: you equate drunk driving
> with ... driving!
[WS:] This is purely semantinc and unfair argument I did not equate anything, I just used an example of high fees that do modify behavior. I could have used late or overdraft charges instead. But let's not argue over semantics, since I agree with what you say next, namely:
> In the 50s, when this all really took off, a
> decision was made to let
> the inner core of many cities rot, and provided tax
> and other incentives
> to move those who could go out to the suburbs.
> Roads were built right
> along with it, standards for how much subsidy would
> be made were
> established, etc. You know the drill. A car
> culture was *created* ...
> not *chosen* ...
> I don't think we have to convince anyone of what to
> fix, we just have to
> do it.
[WS:] So far so good. But how on earth do you expect to accomplish that fix without inflicting costs on the population? The move to the suburbs was achieved at a very heavy social and economic cost - not just by providing a supposedly "better" alternative and tax incentives - stirring racial tensions to force whites out of the cities, house flipping schemes, criminal cutting of public services to name just a few.
The move to the suburbs that you mention was not accomplishe by the tax incentives alone. It was accomplished by inflicting heavy costs on the urban population, the effects of which are still being felt in inner cities by the segments of the population least powerful to resist. Vis a vis these infernal deeds, a $8 congestion fee and a gas tax appear very benign and humane.
So if you think that reversing these policies is possible by incentives alone, without imposing any cost on the population - I think you are dreaming. I personally have not heard of any major social change accomplished without imposing a cost on the population. That cost might have been hidden or downplayed in official accounts - but it was there, and most likely it was the main factor effecting the change. However, if you can provide me with examples of large scale social changes accomplished without the "stick" forcing people to abandon their old ways, I am all ears.
Wojtek
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