>>> Chris Doss
You're probably right now that I think of it, but my point was really
pointing out the reasons for the place of the church in the dominant
contemporary afroamerican culture, which as for as I can tell is pretty
high.
^^^ CB: Yeah, we are on a tangent from the starting theme, but of course that’s ok (smile).
^^^
I would ask you for your opinion on this, but that would constitute asking a black person what he thinks about something related to being black, which is very very wrong for some reason.
^^^ CB: Well, it’s not wrong for discussing some aspects. Anecdotal evidence is sample evidence from a different angle. My anecdotal experience may be a more representative sample than that of someone who doesn’t live in a city that is 85% Black. But of course, I guess this is a comparative question ( is the church _more_ dominant in Black culture than in white ?) So, I’d have to have experience in predominantly white areas , too. Actually, I have spent quite a bit of time around white people in my life. I lived in Ann Arbor for 12 years or so.
Anyway, my guess is that in some white populations the church/religion is as important as in the Black population or culture. But the church might be important in a slightly larger proportion of the Black population than white. Doug probably has opinion poll stats on this.
There are a lot of Black people, who are backsliders in church attendance.
As to what happened on the Prop 8 vote, I don’t know (smile). But guessing, I kinda don’t think it was greater church influence among Black people. I’m tending toward more materialist explanations related to reproduction and having offspring and descendants and grandchildren. I think the “average” person doesn’t think in terms of the rights of others on this, but in terms of the impact society legitimizing gay marriage might have on the sexual orientation of their children. That’s all they care about. In other words, in this case of the personal as political, lots of people think in terms of the very personal, not the larger political or political ideals or equality. They think about it very selfishly in other words. The religious protest is just a rationalization or for many, though not all.
There is an analogy in the history of the right to abortion. There were Black, left radicals who opposed Black women having abortions because they thought of it as part a new genocidal way to keep the Black birthrate down ( and there _is_ a history of that in the US, you can be sure).
Simply put, I’m guessing some Black people are concerned that their children are more likely to become gay the more legitimate it is culturally, and that thereby , percentage wise, their children becoming gay reduces their likelihood of having (grand)children.
Note: these people would be sort of taking the post-modern position of predominant social (not biological) determination/construction of sexuality.
Oh, one other factor may be that there is such a disproportion of Black people in the prison population, and prison would seem to be a main location that gay sexuality is socially constructed. So, some Black people might be like “hell no, you ain’t gonna put all these Black people in prison where they just happen to turn gay, and then...” if you follow me, or maybe you have to be Black in America to get what I’m saying. I don’t know.
Hey here’s another ironic point. In my experience, the greatest location of tolerance for gays ( men especially) is in the church , where it is very widespread that choir leaders and actually pastors (!) are gay and known to be. The late James Cleveland was a very famous and leading Gospel singer. And of course, pastors are important Black community leaders, going back to your original question. Think about the irony of that in terms of this thread topic.
As far as youth and rappers, I think the issue there is youthful sexual culture, where girls aren’t going to like you for a boyfriend if you are gay. So, Eminem and others are trying to signal strongly to the girls.
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