[lbo-talk] blacks about as morally conservative as Republicans

Wendy Lyon wendy.lyon at gmail.com
Sun Dec 7 03:28:27 PST 2008


On 05/12/2008, Jenny Brown <jbrown72073 at cs.com> wrote:
>
> OK, are Italians cafeteria Catholics? Spaniards? I'm just saying you might
> want to look to other factors than Catholicism on abortion law and practice.
> Poland and Ireland, two of the only three European countries with little or
> no legal abortion, also have some history of national oppression, for
> example. (Portugal is the third).

And abortion is more controversial in Italy, Spain and Portugal than it is in, say, the Netherlands or Sweden. So the point still holds. But I've also met women from Italy and Spain now living in Ireland who say they find the Church here much more controlling than it is in their native countries. I think that's an important aspect.

Abortion is legal in Portugal now BTW, the Socialists got that law through only recently. The third country in the EU without legal abortion is Malta. There are other European (non-EU) countries where it's illegal too - Andorra and Vatican City. Notice any pattern there?


> The majority in Poland is pro-choice.

I don't think it's as simple as that. According to the Polish Family Planning Association there is a generation gap on the issue - with younger women LESS likely to support legal abortion. Note that these would be the women who grew up in a Poland with a strong and powerful Catholic church. It's a reversal from the Irish situation, where younger woman, who've grown up under a *relatively* weakened church are more likely to be pro-choice - they're still in the minority though.


> If I'm remembering right, when the left was elected in 2003 (SLD) they had
> promised to liberalize the law but then didn't after they got in power.
> Kwasniewski was quoted as saying that the birth rate was too low anyway.

Yes, this is a trend all over Europe with demographics being increasingly used as an argument against abortion. Anyway the left aren't in power now and the current and previous governments are strongly anti-choice. Things like planning a pregnancy registry so they can find out who's having illegal abortions.

At least the Polish left is pro-choice, though. That's not the case in Ireland (well it is for the far left, but not for any of the parties that poll more than 1%) nor, as I understand it, in Malta. I'm still waiting for someone who disagrees that the Church's power is the reason for this to give me an alternate explanation.



More information about the lbo-talk mailing list