>>> "Dwayne Monroe"
Charles B asks:
So where' s the critique of Clintonism around here ?
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Now Charles, you aren't really asking this question, are you?
Surely you remember the howitzer fire HRC has taken for years on this list?
^^^^^ CB: You know what I mean. Where is it _now_, so as to bring to bear on the campaign debate going on right now. It's absence at "showtime" is strange. It's like it's been rehearsed for several years, and then when the curtain falls everybody gets stage fright and forgets their lines.
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And just as surely, you know that HRC received the lion's share of critical attention prior to BHO's ascendancy.
You must know that the reason BHO is receiving such a blistering critique from some quarters (including quite a few Black people worthy of attention) is because, unlike HRC, who we all agree is an unashamedly imperialist candidate, BHO is perceived as being a more genuinely progressive choice.
^^^^^ CB: By whom ? Not around here. I haven't heard anybody on this list say Obama is a more genuinely progressive choice. Who is your target audience with the critique of Obama ?
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Repeatedly, you say that the "Black polity is not becoming paralyzed or fractured by Obama running. The Black polity is becoming energized".
No one disputes the excitement.
^^^^^^^ CB: I believe I took those phrases from Dennis Claxton quoting you. Did I get that reference wrong ?
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The dispute is over whether or not this energy is for anything real and whether or not it can lead to anything, given the sunshiny emptiness of the BHO message and his non-analysis of American maladies.
^^^^ CB: Who exactly are you disputing that with ? Who said the energy in the Black community is for something "real" ? You are not accurately representing Black people's consciousness about what their vote will lead to. Black people are not likely to be so naive as to think that the election of Obama will solve all their problems or even that he can win. I bet the greatest skepticism as to whether Obama can win is among Black people. As the joke goes these days " Why do Black people have nightmares ? 'Cause the last Negro who had a dream got shot ."
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The assertion that the Black polity is in fact, becoming paralyzed and fractured comes from an acknowledgment of what we're witnessing right here, right now: people like you and Julio and Max - smart, seasoned men all - insisting that BHO's candidacy and message, taking into account the necessary caveats, is a good and solid development and people like me saying it's a disaster.
^^^^^^ CB: How is our saying that ( if we said it) evidence of the Black community becoming paralyzed and fractured ? I never said Obama's candidacy and message is a good and solid development. I said it's good when a lot of white people vote for a Black person; that it is not doing damage to the progressive community, the left such as it is, as we call it around here, since, witness this list, progressives aren't caught up in any of the mindless hype in his campaign; that it's strange that lbo-talk is obsessively upset with the mass enthusiasm for Obama's campaign; and asked why there isn't equal criticism of Clinton right here, right now, at this key moment. Obama's campaign is not a disaster, and not a disaster for the left, progressives. I said why it is not a disaster in a couple of replies to you. Also, I've been saying I'm skeptical that he can win because of racism, especially I might add in that I'm really not sanguine that the highest levels of the ruling class would let him win. But that's just a reflex from so many assassinations of body and character in the past.
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Already this thing is producing not merely differences of opinion but a splintering of vision.
^^^^^ CB: Well this list is not a sample of the Black community , so any splintering around here is not representative of paralysis and fracturing in among Black people. And as I say it is the opposite of the truth to say that Obama's campaign is causing paralysis or fracturing among Black people. Not to mention that the Black community is already in a period of relative paralysis and fracture compared to other historical periods. Obama's campaign is , if anything, having an opposite impact on the Black community. As to on this list, nobody here, not I , anyway, is caught up in Obamania. Max , Julio and Shane seem analytical to me in their mild statements on positives about Obama.
I know I ain't excited. I'm coldblooded about all this. So, I'm not in a splintering vision mode. And anyway, there are already standing differences of opinion on the list. I'm a communist. Are you ? I don't get the impression that you are.
My thing is you all are getting too overworked about something that ain't all that. It certainly is not doing damage to a left that is already "such as it is."
I think you all are envious because so many young people are getting caught up in Obama. It's haterism. :>)
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