[lbo-talk] black primary turnout

[John Thornton]

Charles Brown wrote:
> You also said "He'll be as progressive as the People make him be. If 
> millions are lobbying for universal health care, he'll have no choice 
> but to give it to them."
> Millions of people are lobbying to get the US out of Iraq so this means
>
> you believe Obama will have no choice but to remove US troops from
> Iraq.
> ^^^^^
> CB: Don't you ? Why else would he be able to do that except that the
> polls are overwhelmingly against the war.
>
> ^^^^
>
> I bet he doesn't do it. Mostly because he says he won't do it rather 
> than any great prognosticating abilities on my part.
> I expect there would be no substantive difference between an Obama
> White 
> House or  Clinton White House.
> To believe otherwise is to project ideals onto a candidate rather than
>
> assess them on what they say and do.
>
> ^^^
> CB: I'm trying think how to describe your attitude. It's like
> unnecessarily hopeless slopping over to hoping he does bad, to affirm
> your pessimism. "I sure hope he does bad so I'll be right in predicting
> all this optimism is excess youthful enthusiasm, since I just don't like
> the guy, cause so many people are enthusiastic about him, 

I don't dislike or like Obama. I don't know Obama.
I think it would be great if he withdrew all US troops from Iraq. I'd 
turn fucking cartwheels.
However since he said the US needed to maintain a troop presence in Iraq 
I'll take him at his word.
Why is that pessimism?
Isn't it unrealistic optimism to imagine he'll pull out all US troops 
even after he has stated he won't do that?

John Thornton