[lbo-talk] Nader: not the only one to say Uncle Tom

[John Thornton]

James Heartfield wrote:
> And John Thornton, who thinks it unacceptable to use the phrase Uncle Tom, chides us not to waste time arguing with Shane Mage when he calls Sarah Palin 'Pit Bull Bitch' http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/pipermail/lbo-talk/Week-of-Mon-20080922/015434.html Jim Davis recommends that we denounce Palin as 'the whore of Babylon  http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/pipermail/lbo-talk/Week-of-Mon-20080929/015866.html (just as a joke, you understand). Andie ruminates cheerfully:"Hillary as a sex object is personally difficult for me to get a grip on. ..Palin doesn't do anything for me, but I never went for the cute perky overly cheerful type. I can see how them as finds that type appealing might see here as a sex object. For all the cuteness and perkiness, she's definitely not, er, soft and feminine. In term of hotness, Rice is another story. She can be quite hot in a domme-fetish sort of way." And then the whole list has a good laugh about Nailin' Palin.
>
> Don't get me wrong, I don't want LBO to stop its cheerfully un-pc banter. I like it that way, That's why I was a bit surprised to be told off by John in these terms:
>
>   
>> Maybe it [the phrase Uncle Tom]  has different social baggage in the UK? 
>> Not as bad a ni**er but not too far off either." 
>>     
>
> "LBO Search Results for n-word  1 to 15 of 229 results."
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> I agree with Dennis Claxton, that Nader's jibe missed the mark, but not with John that the term is unacceptable (and it appears that John does not agree with John, for that matter, because he says it is alright to call some black people Uncle Tom, but not others). For my own part, I would not use the phrase, because it appeals to an idea of black solidarity that I do not share in. But people have to be allowed to say it if that is what they mean.
>
>   

Once it had been pointed out several times that Palin did not in fact 
call herself a bitch as Shane claimed I did state that I thought it was 
a waste of time arguing with him.
No point arguing with someone who won't see facts in front of his face.
That has nothing to do with this discussion however.

Please point out where I state it is sometimes OK with me to call Black 
Uncle Tom, I'd love to see it.

I think Charles put it best.
The use of Uncle Tom to describe people that the majority of Black have 
labeled as such is different than using the term to describe someone the 
majority of Black do not consider as such.
I think it's a mistake for any white person to use the term. Charles 
disagrees.
I suspect this discussion will now be about as productive as the one 
with Shane.

John Thornton
P.S. You weren't "told off" by me. If I tell someone off I'm far more 
acerbic than I have been in this thread.