[lbo-talk] Abolition of prisons (Was: Angela...)

andie nachgeborenen andie_nachgeborenen at yahoo.com
Tue Apr 7 08:15:35 PDT 2009


You cannot rely on a dictionary, even Black's Law Dictionary, for the effective legal meaning of terms like robbery. You must look up how the term is defined in the statute, then, if you are being careful, look up how it is interpreted in the cases from the applicable jurisdiction.

E.g., never mind why I was looking this up, but in NY and Texas prostitution requires an offer or performance of a sexual act for a "fee" while in Illinois and many other states, it is in exchange for "something of value." What counts as a sexual act or sexual conduct varies also. In New York, it includes "sado-masochistic abuse," which in turn is defined as "flagellation or torture" while the beater or beatee is wearing either underclothes or a "bizarre costume" and/or mask. At least on the face of the statute it's not sexual conduct, hence not prostitution to take a "fee" for it, if the beater is wearing street clothes and the beatee is nude.

Illinois does not include sado-masochistic conduct of any sort in its prostie statute, at least explicitly; in the broad sense sexual conduct is the appropriate combination of genital-anal-oral contact or conduct intended to produce sexual gratification or arousal. The Illinois statute gets weirder: it's not prostitution to take something of value in exchange for a sexual act if you are married to the offeror, but there is no such marital exception for offering something of value. So if your wife says, Go down on me and I will make you a nice swordfish dinner, it's not prostitution to accept this offer, so you haven't violated the statute, but she has.

Point: you'd never find this in a dictionary. And whether any court has so interpreted any of the laws the way they appear on their face is another ball of wax. A final example: Texas and Missouri have explicit consent exceptions to laws prohibiting non-serious assault -- assault here meaning harmful contact, thus making boxing and hockey legal. Illinois and New York have judicially implied consent exceptions (although in Illinois the contact is called battery and the threat is assault). However, even the states with explicit statutory exceptions do not permit assault in a consensual bar fight ("Let's go out and settle this like men."). There's a judicially implied public policy exception to the exception to that sort of mutually consensual assault.

That's why you have to pay people like me money. If you could look up this stuff in Nolo or a dictionary and get it right most of the time, I'd be out of a job.

--- On Tue, 4/7/09, Jordan Hayes <jmhayes at j-o-r-d-a-n.com> wrote:


> From: Jordan Hayes <jmhayes at j-o-r-d-a-n.com>
> Subject: Re: [lbo-talk] Abolition of prisons (Was: Angela...)
> To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
> Date: Tuesday, April 7, 2009, 1:51 AM
> Shane Mage, on a roll, writes:
>
> >> There is *no* *such* *thing* as a
> non-physical-assault Robbery!
> >
> > Ever heard of pickpockets? Shoplifters?
>
> Ever hear of a dictionary?
>
> Ok, no snarkiness: shoplifting is not Robbery.
>
> Pickpocketing is not Robbery.
>
> Ever hear of pizza? I love pizza.
>
> /jordan
> ___________________________________
> http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/mailman/listinfo/lbo-talk



More information about the lbo-talk mailing list