[lbo-talk] Abolition of prisons (Was: Angela...)

[John Thornton]

Dennis Claxton wrote:
> At 06:11 PM 4/6/2009, John Thornton wrote:
>
>> I'll try to explain this more clearly.
>> I object to robbery being included in the category of violent crimes 
>> with rape, assault, and murder since it is not a crime committed with 
>> intent the harm others as these crimes are.
>
>
> Under the law robbery is by definition violent because it includes 
> "using means of force or fear to take personal property directly and 
> permanently from another person." (quoting from Nolo's Criminal Law 
> Handbook).  They also give the example of using a gun to hold up a 
> convenience store.  It doesn't matter if it's an unloaded gun or a toy 
> gun, you're using force or fear so it's robbery.
>
> How do you propose to get around that?

I simply think the break out should list robbery separate from crimes 
that involve actual physical assault.
If the robbery involves physical assault then list the crime under assault.
Contrary to Jordan's claim that "There is *no* *such* *thing* as a 
non-physical-assault Robbery!" they happen all the time.
A robbery is extortion, a mental and emotional assault, but it is the 
THREAT of physical assault not an actual physical assault.
The threat of something is not the same as something.
I'll ask if you would see no difference between someone threatening to 
punch you in the face and someone actually punching you in the face.
Most reasonable people will not equate the two but for some reason 
Jordan does and our current legal system sometimes professes to.
It really does make a difference that the man robbing the bookstore 
right before christmas has no intent to use the gun in his pocket.
Intent is important.
Perhaps Jordan would be surprised how many would be robbers would shit 
their pants if you told them to fuck off.
They had no intention of harming and when faced with the prospect of 
harming someone or failing in their robbery chose failing in their robbery.
I wouldn't recommend this course of action but it demonstrates that 
robbery should not be included in the category of physical assault like 
murder, rape and assault.
Yes Jordan, this is but one thing I would change in our crappy legal code.
I'm not saying robbery isn't a crime I'm saying that a legal system that 
sometimes equates a threat to an assault but at other times doesn't is 
flawed.
When one of my towns "leading citizens" told me during a heated argument 
that he really should kick my ass that was a threat but no court would 
actually convict him of assaulting me.
Put a gun in the pocket of a poor person and now that threat is suddenly 
the equal of physically assault.
Anyone can threaten another person, it happens every day. It takes a 
different personality type to act on that threat. The law should 
recognize this fact better than it currently does.

John Thornton