>[WS:] There is no risk involved in the failure to obtain actionable
>intelligence in a criminal justice case - Nothing will happen if Mr.
>Cheney goes unpunished,
The Iraq war. the current world economic crisis. I could go on. Vheney went unpunished and was able to continue his criminal career freely and all those things happened as a consequence. Things much worse than 9/11.
>but a lot of bad things may happen if terrorists are not caught.
>
>As I already said, the only choice in a criminal justice case is
>that between two principles - due process vs. retribution - so the
>actual decision depends solely on the value attached to each
>principle. If one attaches a greater value to due process, one may
>not mind sacrificing the retribution principle, and vice versa.
>This, I believe, is major distinguishing line between liberals and
>conservatives.
>
>By contrats, counter-terrorism is not about punishment (or
>retribution) but about risk prevention, so the actions are judged
>not just in terms of values (i.e. the cost of the action versus the
>benefit that action may bring) but also in terms of probabilities
>attached to both cost and benefit. Very different from criminal
>justice.
If Cheney had been prosecuted for his war crimes, he would not have been in a position to continue to issue criminal orders. His henchmen would also have had second thoughts about continuing their criminal behaviour if the rewards he promised them were no longer likely to be forthcoming.
>If you want my opinion, I think that intelligence obtained through
>torture of any kind is basically garbage - not just useless but
>counterproductive, as the informants have every incentive to
>"confess" regardless of the truth function of that "confession."
>But that is my value judgment, which is beside the point.
It isn't just your opinion, it is unassailable fact. Anyone who believes that intelligence obtained through torture is useful is a moron. Anyone who advocates intelligence gathering through torture is a psychopath.
There's just no use beating around the bush with qualifications about this being "opinion" or "value judgement". There's no other valid opinion possible, this isn't an issue on which we can afford to tolerate psychopaths and fools. We have to tell them they are out of line.
Stop being so tolerant and moderate.
Bill Bartlett Bracknell Tas