> At 09:47 PM 2/25/2009, Carrol Cox wrote:
>
>
> Philip Pilkington wrote:
>> >
>> > As I pointed out in my
>> > first post the word pansy was tied up with the word "pensive", which is
>> not
>> > only an "artistic" notion but a highly effeminate one.
>>
>> The problem here is that almost certainly whoever used "pansy" first in
>> its sexual sense was not a philologist, and was probably focusing on the
>> appearance of the flower or the sound of the word _in English_. How long
>> has the colro lavendar been associated with homosexuality. Also, many of
>> the terms for gays could only come into existence after homsexuality and
>> heterosexuality were invented as social categories in the late 19th
>> century. Byron was very probably a sodomite, but he wasn't a homosexual,
>> because the category didn't exist then.
>>
>> There may be some slang terms the coinage of which related to the word's
>> etymology, but I doubt it.
>>
>> Carrol
>>
>
> haven't had a chance to carefully read Philp's reply but, etymologically,
> if the innert00bz can be trusted, the first use of pansy to signify an
> effeminate man was in the 1920s
Well. according to highly entrusted online sources (heh) "pansy" dates back to Elizabethan times...
>
>
> At first I made the connection to thoughtfulness -- in the way that, in the
> states, thoughtful, pensive intellectuals were considered anathema as early
> as the early 1800s. Doug's pointed to Hofstadter's work on the topic and so
> have I, quoting a book I read last fall.
>
> But I'm guessing that no one who used the phrase pansy bothered to learn of
> its etymology. But who knows. What does the OED say Carrol?
>
> shag
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>
Chris Doss: "Barbarian" "Crash"
As I said, its a rarity that terms are coined in this manner. I was going to leave it at being inventions that target "instinctual" terms... but it also tends to designate terms that invoke a sense of "trauma" - are the two really so different.
My point is still, though, that its, no matter what terms these unusual terms tend to generate, that generally it follows the rule of genrating out of past meaning...