[lbo-talk] munchers

[ravi]

On Jun 10, 2009, at 11:11 AM, Miles Jackson wrote:
> ravi wrote:
>> On Jun 10, 2009, at 1:18 AM, Michael McIntyre wrote:
>>> So then, mathematicians by definition have no research program.
>>
>> You beat me to that. Miles, really, what's with the empirical  
>> fetish? ;-) That is indeed blunt, but in a different sense than you  
>> intended.
>>
> I just don't understand the casual and loose way that people are  
> using the term "research program".  Apparently it is ludricious to  
> state that mathematicians don't have a research program.  The fact  
> is--they don't.  They're not doing research, they're doing  
> mathematics.  Research involves empirical investigation.
> Perhaps people are using the term "research" to mean "academic  
> inquiry" in a general way?  If so, I agree that Chomksy has a  
> research program, but then so does every philosopher and literary  
> theorist.
>
> Note that this is not an attack on these areas of study: I consider  
> them valuable aspects of human experience and knowledge.  However,  
> there is a meaningful conceptual distinction to be drawn between  
> fields that build knowledge on the basis of empirical test and those  
> that do not.  Claiming that someone has a "research program" when  
> they have not conducted any research to test their theories is  
> bizarre to me.
>

Miles,

there are multiple definitions of research, and I am comfortable with  
this one:
a systematic search for knowledge (which I cobbled together from  
wordnet.princeton.edu). If your quibble is with this usage, then I  
think since the rest of us do not seem to be worried, you should  
mentally substitute the term of your choice -- or alternatively, if  
the rest are willing to go along, I will be glad to substitute  
"inquiry" for "research" in all future email.

I am not trying to be snarky: I do think that we are not using the  
term in a loose manner, just one that is different from the one you  
have in mind. Borrowing from what you write above, I do in fact think  
that there is nothing fundamentally different, in terms of inquiry or  
research, between what [empirical] scientists do and what  
mathematicians or philosophers -- verification of propositions does  
not necessarily depend on observation of the natural world.

	--ravi