Before people inevitably accuse me of asserting that homosexuality is a mental disorder and/or perverse, I am accounting for why it is considered that way by the majority of people, not the behavior itself.
--- On Fri, 5/22/09, Chris Doss <lookoverhere1 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> From: Chris Doss <lookoverhere1 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [lbo-talk] Irish priests beat, raped children
> To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
> Date: Friday, May 22, 2009, 6:37 AM
>
>
> Most men can imagine themselves raping a grown woman, since
> grown women are what they find sexually attractive. It grows
> out of desires that they themselves experience. Therefore,
> rape of a grown woman is classed as a crime (something that
> "normal" people may want to do, but must not) but not a
> perversion/disorder (something "normal' people do not want
> to do). On the other hand, (most) men cannot imagine
> themselves raping underage children -- or having sex,
> consensual or not, with other men for that matter. It's
> repulsive. Therefore, the desire to do so is considered
> perverse and/or a mental disorder, depending on how you
> classify these things.
>
>
> --- On Fri, 5/22/09, Lenin's Tomb <leninstombblog at googlemail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > From: Lenin's Tomb <leninstombblog at googlemail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [lbo-talk] Irish priests beat, raped
> children
> > To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
> > Date: Friday, May 22, 2009, 6:00 AM
> > > Your figure is, I think, grossly
> > overinflated. Most men are sexually
> > > repelled by children, not attracted. That's why
> > pedophilia is considered a
> > > perversion or mental disorder. Most men cannot
> imagine
> > themselves doing it.
> >
> >
> > This is dubious. I had thought that the reason why
> > child rape was
> > considered perverted was because it is a wicked and
> cruel
> > thing to torture
> > children in that way, not because 'most men' 'cannot
> > imagine' being
> > attracted to a child. First of all, it is actually
> > impossible to say how
> > many men find children attractive, because beyond
> those who
> > actually proceed
> > from desire to rape, who else is going to make their
> > desires known?
> > Secondly, even among offenders, how many are actually
> known
> > about? It is
> > estimated that most such rape takes place within
> families,
> > where it can
> > remain secret and even protected by the family - the
> recent
> > 'Italian Fritzl'
> > case may be an instance of this. Thirdly, for your
> > argument to work, you
> > would have to assume that all child abusers meet the
> > criteria for a clinical
> > diagnosis of paedophilia, which would be an
> inaccurate
> > assumption. It may
> > also be that not every paedophile acts on his (or in
> the
> > rare case, her)
> > desire.
> >
> > Finally, the whole basis of your objection is
> laughably
> > reactionary.
> > Sexuality is socially produced, and there is no dearth
> of
> > evidence that
> > large numbers of men have been attracted to children
> > throughout history. In
> > fact, there are certain supposedly 'harmless' forms
> of
> > paedophilia that are
> > culturally quite common, such as the 'Lolita' and
> > 'schoolgirl' child-woman
> > fixations: for example, the multinationals that
> fashioned
> > the Britney and
> > JoJo personas presumably knew what they were doing.
> > Racks and racks of
> > perfectly legal and saleable pornographic magazines
> contain
> > fantasies that
> > allude to child-fucking, incest and so on: 'barely
> legal'
> > and 'sweet tens',
> > 'daddy's little girl' etc. British tabloids love to
> > show you a page 3
> > stunner who is only just legal: the Daily Star once
> made
> > itself notorious by
> > featuring a girl who was covering her nipples, with
> the
> > disclaimer: "she's
> > only fifteen, and when she's sixteen, we'll show you
> her
> > nipples". The
> > sexualisation of children in culture is hard to
> miss.
> > While I'm on the
> > subject, gay pornography often stars 'twinks' - young
> men
> > who look extremely
> > boyish and almost prepubescent, because they have
> little
> > body hair and so
> > on. I am not pretending that all of this should be
> > equated with actual
> > child pornography, in which what is enjoyed is the
> real
> > life rape and
> > torture of children. What I am suggesting is that
> the
> > evidence would appear
> > to be that at least millions of men - men who aren't
> child
> > rapists - are
> > prepared to entertain such desires. Any
> > attempt to base the censure of
> > child rape on assuptions about the 'normal' workings
> of
> > male desire in a
> > patriarchical society can only succeed by reproducing
> > discourses of
> > deviancy, discourses that medicalise sexual desire
> (bear in
> > mind that
> > paedophilia is actually treated as a subcategory of
> > 'paraphilia' which is
> > the usually harmless but apparently 'sick' desire
> aroused
> > by a particular
> > object), and which inevitably play into homophobic
> and
> > misogynistic
> > stereotypes.
> >
> > Perhaps what you meant to say, or should have said,
> was
> > that most men are
> > repelled by the idea of torturing children - which,
> even if
> > we can't prove
> > it, is a thesis I am willing to put my hope in.
> > ___________________________________
> > http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/mailman/listinfo/lbo-talk
> >
>
>
>
>
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