[lbo-talk] gore vidal is an old, cranky prick

[c b]

Chris Doss
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The whole "individuals vs. huge impersonal forces" thing is a false
dichotomy anyway, because individuals and huge impersonal forces can
only be seen in each other. Forces can only be seen in individual
instantiations. It is true to say, "the dinosaurs were killed off by a
great chain reaction of events that began with the creation of the
universe." It is also true to say, "the dinosaurs were killed off by a
fucking huge meteor."

^^^^^^^
CB: I think you are correct to sort of raise a questino about the term
"huge impersonal forces".   The dichotomy here is more exactly between
individual humans and social groups of humans with systems of ideas
that organize their activities. The important thing is that most of
the ideas the individuals have that organize their activities do not
originate from inside them as individuals, but are learned as members
of the groups. The forces aren't really "impersonal" because they
derive from persons. It's just that the ideas are not derived thinking
just about or considering only a given individual persons who might be
"forced" to do things by them.

This is a form of the old "free will ( of the individual) vs
determinism ( by group ideas or divine forces)"  riddle.