[lbo-talk] more noxious crap (useful, this catch-all confession as a heading)

Marv Gandall marvgandall at videotron.ca
Sat Oct 3 14:42:14 PDT 2009


----- Original Message ----- From: "James Heartfield" <Heartfield at blueyonder.co.uk> To: <lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org> Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2009 4:28 PM Subject: [lbo-talk] more noxious crap (useful,this catch-all confession as a heading)


> Marv Gandall writes:
>
> "There's nothing in the behaviour of the the US capitalist class which
> suggests it would peacefully defer to a radical left wing party genuinely
> bent on stripping it of it's wealth and power rather than engage it by
> mobilizing the reactionary sectors of the population for civil war. At
> present, there's every indication that it would find enough willing foot
> soldiers from a Republican base which would be breaking further to the
> right than the left in a deeper crisis. "
>
> Which I find a bit speculative. There is no need for capital to mobilise
> reactionary sectors of the population for a civil war, because there is no
> working class movement to put down. (The Tea-baggers are more indicative
> of the break up of the Republicans, than of a proto-fascist militia for
> capitalism, surely?)

MG: No kidding. I said capital would not defer to "a radical left wing party genuinely bent on stripping of it's wealth and power" which, at this point, is more than even a bit speculative in the American context.
>
> Marx and Engels might not have entertained the possibility of peaceful
> transformation with much enthusiasm, but they did not think that
> revolution was an abstract moral postulate, outside of historical time,
> either. In certain times they wound down their involvement in radical
> groups, because they saw them as being out of time: you can see their
> irritation with the German emigres in London after 1849; and more
> important, you can see it in Engels satisfaction that the International
> Working Men's Association had been effectively wound up (under the
> subterfuge of relocating it in New York). Engels, then, was happy to
> anticipate that a new international would be many years ahead, once
> Marxist theory had been better understood. (see Engels' letter to Bebel 20
> June 1873, and to Sorge 12 September 1874.

MG: Evidence that they were not idealist sectarians who do think "outside of historical time" - that is to say, that revolutionary demands and the formation of revolutionary organizations have no relation at all to the ebb and flow of class conflict, prevailing mass consciousness, and their related attachment to less than revolutionary mass organizations.

We're on the same page, James.



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