[lbo-talk] Back Again/Obamacare & Afghanistan

[andie nachgeborenen]

It's a dilemma, isn't it? We have no movement nor any on the horizon. But the Dems are a disgrace. For years I said, No Lesser Of Two Evils, often and in print. Then we got W. Turned out there _was_ a lesser of two evils. Didn't make a difference that I voted for Nader in 2000 because I'm in Illinois, but I sure as hell worked for Kerry in 2004 in Ohio, where it mattered, and where the DP lost. Not that he would have been any bargain. And McCain made it clear that he was determined to be Bush III, so I worked for Obama in Ohio again, _knowing_ that he'd turn out this way. I don't intend to get into the Dem or Not-To-Dem argument, been there, done that, both sides, many years. What's clear is that BHO is going to be as great a disappointment as we feared, or more, unless we actually organize and kick some ass. So I hope we can do some of that. Andie 

--- On Sat, 9/12/09, mart <media314159 at yahoo.com> wrote:


> From: mart <media314159 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [lbo-talk] Back Again/Obamacare & Afghanistan
> To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
> Date: Saturday, September 12, 2009, 5:13 PM
> i guess this makes me a conservative,
> but i tend to think 'progressives' get what they deserve,
> and want ('cognitive dissonance').  while the dems may be a
> diss/apointment in some ways, hey, we got the internet. 
> 'path dependence', or non-commutativity as they say in
> physics, or (black sheep) 'you can get with this, or you can
> get with that'.  we got with this.
> 
> --- On Sat, 9/12/09, Jim Farmelant <farmelantj at juno.com>
> wrote:
> 
> 
> From: Jim Farmelant <farmelantj at juno.com>
> Subject: Re: [lbo-talk] Back Again/Obamacare &
> Afghanistan
> To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
> Cc: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
> Date: Saturday, September 12, 2009, 5:52 PM
> 
> 
> 
> On Sat, 12 Sep 2009 14:39:17 -0700 (PDT) andie
> nachgeborenen
> <andie_nachgeborenen at yahoo.com>
> writes:
> 
> > And I campaigned for him. I suppose McCain would have
> been worse. 
> > But I think it's time for me to re-up in Solidarity
> again.
> > 
> > Andie
> > 
> >
> 
> When will progressives ever learn? I bet a lot
> of people here think that Carrol Cox is talking
> through his hat when he calls the Democratic
> Party the greatest obstacle to progressive
> social change in this country.  But an
> examination of the history of the DP over
> the past 120 years or so, I think, bears
> hims out on this point.  The old adage
> that the Democratic Party is the place
> that social movements go to die is as
> true now as it ever was.  The
> only times that Democratic presidents
> have ever pushed through significant
> progressive legislation were those
> times when there were strong social
> movements (i.e. the labor movement
> in the 1930s, the civil rights, antiwar,
> and student movements in the 1960s),
> which at the time was not completely
> captive to the Democratic Party.
> At almost every other period when
> Democratic presidents have been
> elected they have proven to be
> great disappointments for progressives
> (i.e. Grover Cleaveland, Woodrow
> Wilson, Harry Truman, JFK,
> Bill Clinton, and now BO).
> 
> Jim F. 
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