[lbo-talk] let's argue about the cause of mental illness

[shag carpet bomb]

At 03:00 AM 9/28/2009, andie nachgeborenen wrote:
>Btw, it would interesting to know if there is any research on whether 
>Wellbutrin and other non SSRI ADs increase suicidal ideation. If not, that 
>would undercut the theory Shag mentions that what SSRIs do is make 
>depressed people undepressed enough to actually start thinking about or 
>taking steps towards suicide. If that theory is correct, any roughly 
>equally effective ADs should have that effect. (See, the basic elements of 
>scientific method, Mill's Method's, identified long ago in by J.S. Mill in 
>his Logic, are still excellent starting points for hypothesis formation 
>and testing.

while I agree that we should be skeptical of research (Healey is making 
that point too but wants to improve research, not throw the baby out with 
the huggies), isn't it kind of, i don't know, condescending to assume they 
can't even get the basics? (yes, i agree that lawyers and physicians and 
psychiatriasts are not "real" doctors. the only ppl who should be called 
doctors are phuds. Someone posted the history of that remarkable turnabout 
on this list some years ago.)

but still.... i mean, you dno't actually think you are so much brighter 
that they wouldn't know to actually compare SSRIs to other types of 
anti-depressants? (In fact, that is often what they *have* to do: compare a 
new drug with an older treatment to demonstrate that it offers an 
improvement for treatment either through better results and/or fewer side 
effects).

Anyway, here's Healey:

"Other data sets provide similar findings. For instance, in Pierre Fabre's 
clinical trial database of approximately 8,000 patients, the rate for 
suicide attempts on SSRIs appears to be 3 times the rate for other 
antidepressants [26]. However, these other sources have a mixture of 
trials. The current analysis limits the number of studies but ensures that 
they should be roughly comparable and the selection of studies is based on 
regulatory requirements rather than individual bias."

There's more here, where he speaks to specific research studies comparing 
SSRIs and other types of treatment:

http://www.healyprozac.com/EditorsDilemma/Psychotherapy_Psychosomatics.pdf