[lbo-talk] questions for the fascist-watchers

[SergioL652 at aol.com]

I don't know what evidence is there that there would have been massive  
support of single payer.  If single payer had been on the table the  backlash 
would have been worse.  All of the MSM would have been calling  Obama a 
socialist, not just Fox.  Also, the scary alternative to Obama is  not fascism is 
republicans.  They showed how much damage they can do in  power for eight 
years.  All the items that Doug mention are extensions of  the Bush regime.  
If they had not been there already I doubt Obama would  have been pushing 
for it.  You damm right I'm afraid of another republican  victory.  

 

 
In a message dated 2/20/2010 6:54:44 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
s11131978 at gmail.com writes:

I want  to make it clear: I agree with Chip. I think the TP is important. 
Very  important. It has zero to do with fascism, but it's very important. 
It  does push politics sharply to the right; it's already doing that. I 
hate  Obamacare, but objectively speaking the TP movement was amazingly  
successful in killing it (assuming it dies) - first with the town halls  
last summer, then with Scott Brown. You don't often see such a  
spectacular derailing of a juggernaut very often in US politics (though  
I guess the push to stop Bush's SS privatization would count).

The  problem isn't the claim that the TP is pushing politics to the 
right. The  problem is the diagnosis. It always ends up being, by 
default, that we  should obsess about the threat of the TP (or whatever 
right-wing movement)  and put aside differences with the Dems to stop 
them. That's exactly the  opposite of what should be done. If the TP is 
putting pressure on Obama  from the right, you need to increase the 
pressure from the left. You can't  sit and wring your hands about whether 
that "weakens" Obama. Who cares?  Answer: Only people who've been told 
that the alternative is  fascism.

For example, the TP was so successful with health care not  because their 
views reflected those of the mass of the public, but because  they were 
the only visible flesh-and-blood movement out in the country  that cared 
about the issue one way or the other. If the plan on the table  had been 
single payer, there would have been an enthusiastic pro-reform  
constituency willing to show up at the town halls in large numbers and  
defend the plan. But with Obamacare, nobody outside of Washington is  
really, specifically *for* it. There's just people who hate it. No  
wonder it got so unpopular so  fast.

SA
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