On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 9:24 AM, Wojtek S <wsoko52 at gmail.com> wrote:
> RE:Oh god. Has there been a large surge in Randian and libertarian worship
> among the 20 something crowd?
>
> I ask because my father's sister has has five daughters who had several
> boys
> who are now mostly in there early to late 20s, and it seems they are nearly
> all entranced by Rand, Nozick, and libertarian tripe in general.
>
> [WS:] I find that hardly surprising. The "twentysomething" is a stupid
> age
> in which people tend to go on self-empowerment trips. Consequently, they
> tend to be susceptible to arrogant anti-social ideologies proclaiming the
> virtues of the heroic individual, with whom they identify, over the
> faceless
> mass enemy, which stands for their parents, teachers and other authority
> figures from which they feel recently "liberated." It explains the
> popularity of such youth movements like Hitlerjugend, Komsomol, Red Guards,
> anarchists, Young Republicans or libertarians.
>
> It seems to work like that. In their adolescence, these people (mainly of
> middle class background) are inculcated with feelings of self-importance
> through the middle-class socialization and education that emphasizes
> individualism, personal achievement, leadership etc. Yet the social and
> institutional reality provides little actual opportunity for the
> realization
> of these individualistic ambitions, as most of these "young self-made
> eagles" will land on entry level corporate positions where they have to
> kowtow to their bosses or customers and submit to a myriad of rules,
> regulations, codes, and protocols to stay afloat. So any ideology that
> extols the virtues of self-made individualism, creativity, innovation, risk
> taking etc. over the ossified social structures, tradition, authorities
> etc. provides a nice escapist fantasy land for these folks.
>
> It is a virtual power trip for frustrated middle class kids, if you will.
> Rational rebating their newly found ideological glorification of the
> unbound
> by social norms individualism is as futile as appeals to control their
> hormonal surges. It just feeds into their self-gratifying delusions. A
> better approach is to ask them to postpone that debate until they grow up
> and get some real-world experience.
>
> Wojtek
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 7:57 PM, Bryan Atinsky <bryan at alt-info.org> wrote:
>
> > Oh god. Has there been a large surge in Randian and libertarian worship
> > among the 20 something crowd?
> >
> > I ask because my father's sister has has five daughters who had several
> > boys who are now mostly in there early to late 20s, and it seems they are
> > nearly all entranced by Rand, Nozick, and libertarian tripe in general.
> >
> > Lately, some of them have taken to use Facebook as their soap box. It is
> > embarrassing to read their nonsense.
> > I was wondering if others notice this trend, have to suffer this
> silliness.
> > Do I just have the bad luck of the draw, or is this a trend among that
> > generation?
> >
> > Here are some sadly funny quotes from them of late:
> >
> > "Why is it that buildings in America can withstand earthquakes and strong
> > hurricanes while buildings in countries in Russia and China crumble like
> > Saltine crackers under similar conditions? "
> >
> > "When the strongest free nation is reduced to a socialized welfare state
> > the entire world be will threatened by the tyrant with the biggest army
> and
> > the most destructive weapons. In the end, only a one world government
> > imposing their ideology of how much enough is will be capable of
> controlling
> > us and that will be a disaster for those of us that love our freedom. "
> >
> > "Our Country donates more money, resources, knowledge, and manpower to
> help
> > humanity all around the globe than all other countries combined. Only in
> a
> > free country can free people help others in need. Capping freedom in the
> > name of "social justice" will hurt efforts to end human suffering
> globally."
> >
> > I mistakenly tried to answer a quote of their's from Nozick: "Taxation of
> > earnings from labor is on a par with forced labor"
> >
> > With this quick critique from me: "One big problem with Nozick's minimal
> > state (and libertarian nonsense in general) is that as the differential
> > distribution of resources inevitably grows more and more monopolistic in
> a
> > feedback loop, in your dream society, the percentage of the population
> > impoverished will grow, and unlike Nozick's utopia, they will not take
> this
> > sitting down, and the only way to ensure a retention of this distribution
> > would be an extremely large police state. Oh goody!"
> >
> > Which just set them off on a feeding frenzy:
> >
> > "Ouch Brian...the liberal personal attack method is growing weary. Your
> > dream society seems more like communism, where the distribution of
> resources
> > is supposedly equal (unless of coarse you are part of the communist
> elite).
> > Only problem is that production is reduced because there is no motivation
> to
> > even meet demand. Eventually, distribution of basic products requires an
> > extremely large and brutal police state - as history has shown and that
> is
> > your reality. Your criticism of Nozick's minimal state is missing a very
> > basic unmeasurable component: Risk. In a free society, individuals have
> the
> > freedom to take risks based on perceptions of rewards. Many risks are not
> > successful and thus individuals economic status changes, sometimes
> > drastically. Sure, you consider your self to be a well indoctrinated
> liberal
> > elitist who has all the answers and just wishes others would listen -
> > because you know it all. You have the inane ability to detect injustice
> > where ever it's perpetrated anywhere in the universe and immediately
> > understand what it will take to level the playing field in a fair and
> just
> > system. If only others could see things as clearly as you do....But the
> real
> > reality is your thoughts are extremely far to the left. Libertarianism
> > promotes a free society which is what this Country's constitution is
> based
> > on. Freedom also offers you the liberty to have an unpopular viewpoint
> and
> > the ability to espouse it where ever and when ever you please without
> fear
> > of government retribution, jail, or death as was the fate of those
> fighting
> > for freedom in Tienanmen Square.What I don't understand is why we need
> faux
> > freedom fighters, like you, to correct self perceived injustices. "
> >
> > "That is right, you are not a liberal, you are a communist. For some
> reason
> > it is more important to you to have social equality than justice and
> human
> > rights. You can say that I am prepubescent and i don't care because its
> not
> > true but at least I don't have something mentally wrong with me. There
> are 2
> > stages to communism, and until you get to the ... See Morepure communist
> > state human rights doesn't matter. That is why over 60 million people
> have
> > died in the last century in the name of equality. Also what do you do
> > besides live off the teet of your wife's work. Well I guess this just
> proves
> > that you value your life more than others and so live like a parasite and
> > live off the work of others. You may not agree with my views but you have
> > never stated yours. Get off your ivory tower, just because you have been
> > stuck in college for the last 25 years doesn't mean you know everything
> or
> > anything."
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ___________________________________
> > http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/mailman/listinfo/lbo-talk
> >
> ___________________________________
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>
-- ********************************************************* Alan P. Rudy Dept. Sociology, Anthropology and Social Work Central Michigan University 124 Anspach Hall Mt Pleasant, MI 48858 517-881-6319