[lbo-talk] Definition of nation (was as if on cue)

[Marv Gandall]

Good analyses of the contradictory effect of national and family identification, but it doesn't necessarily follow that the global erosion of national economies and cultures will "reduce humanity to a 'brave new world' of atomistic automatons". The secular college-educated urban youth who have been at the forefront of the democratic uprisings in the Middle East, for example, have been the most exposed to global technological, economic, and cultural influences and these, as we are daily witnessing, have served to "lubricate" rather than to diminish social interaction.

On 2011-02-03, at 9:20 AM, Wojtek S wrote:


> [WS:] One can say that about any collective entity - a family, a circle of
> friends, a tribe, an ethnic group, a nation - what unites it is a shared
> common identity and a shared understanding what constitutes that identity
> and what does not.  It is based on objective, observable phenomena (such as
> language, co-residence, ethnicity etc.) but only inasmuch as such phenomena
> are treated selectively (e.g. for some the birthplace is a defining
> characteristic but ancestry is not, for others it may be the other way
> around.)  But these objective, observable phenomena are intertwined with
> mythical ones (e.g. mythical ancestry.) Sociologists call that 'social
> constructs.'
> 
> Whether one likes it or not, this is what defines any social group - from
> the family to the nation.   This collective identity is sometimes abused to
> keep people in line - e.g. demanding that women "sacrifice" themselves to
> their families and stay with their asshole husbands or demanding that
> citizens "sacrifice" themselves to their nation and follow their asshole
> leaders.  But these tend to be exceptions that get the attention and
> deserved criticism.  Most of the time - and thus taken for granted - those
> collective identities have beneficial effects on everyday life and human
> relations by reducing conflict and competition, defining norms of acceptable
> behavior, defining the framework  of public discourse and "lubricating"
> social interaction.
> 
> Taking that collective identity  away will reduce humanity to a "brave new
> world" of atomistic automatons, so if that is the goal of  the revolution,
> you can keep your revolution.
> 
> PS.  I've traveled to some 30 or so countries and one of the most depressing
> experiences is to see the homogeneous commercial culture erasing national
> differences.  One of the most horrendous examples of this trend is Makati
> City in the Philippines - which basically is a nexus of gigantic
> interconnected shopping malls filled with brand name schlock.  So you spend
> 23 hours on a plane, then wander through those cavernous malls and feel like
> you never left the United States.