[lbo-talk] Response to MG -- Was Poll....

[brad]

Shag:
first, the radical left is pretty fucking small. it never worries me when
some of us elect not to join in the fun. as carrol always says, he votes.
he just doesn't get involved in the whole brouhaha and likes to lecture us
about how we shouldn't either. Go ahead and vote. Whatever. Just don't
fancy that its going to do much to move a radical left politics ahead. we
are so fucking small it just ain't gonna make a difference whether we
contribute money, knock on doors campaigning for politicians, or write two
articles a week designed to persuade peole to vote for this or that
candidate.
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But party politics is much, much larger than just voting.  You are
falling into the fetishism of the vote that is one of the main ways
capitalism's formal seperation of politics from economics wins.  We
should avoid this and see and bring to the fore the connections
between electoral politics, parties and the economy.

Shag:
what is that POV? That what we should do to "organize" is to pick what ever
cause we want and get involved in it to whatever degree we feel
comfortable, in whatever contributions make sense, using whatever skills we
happen to bring to the table. Joanna's work with teachers. Chuck's work
with the disabled. Gar's work on alternative energy. Joe Catron's work in
the ME. You can lick envelopes (boy, am i old!), write HTML for email
newsletter, give speeches, make cookies and hot chocolate for the
protesters freezing their butts off in Wisconsin. Whatever. Just pick
something that pumps you up and work on it.
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Yep, which is why I pointed out that Wisconsin is really not the first
instance of class struggle to emerge.  Rather there are always people
resisting and we just need to plug into that.  Even with in the DP
there a lot of folks who are engaged in class struggle.


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Shag:

The reason why you do this is that, when the day comes that something
happens - that fucking wild ass day when everything just snaps, when people
have to take sides on some big issue -- that is the day when all that small
scale seemingly pickyass "organizing" (licking envelopes, writing HTML,
making speeches) comes into play.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Nope, this is spontaneousism.  The Marxist left has been arguing
against anarchists over this very point since the old grey beard
himself went after it.  I have nothing against anarchism, other than I
think it is incorrect to think that at some point there will be a
spark that we just need to prepare and wait for.  Nonsense, we
(working people generally) need to create that spark.  Yes, we should
be preparing the necessary cadre and resources but we also need to be
actively attempting to start shit.


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Shag:

p.s., anyone into conventional party politics could easily say, "Yeah,
that's what I'm doing when I get involved with dem party politics in the
u.s. " Yup. That's where I depart from Carrol. Let them get shit done with
the democrats. When the time comes, they'll have the political resources to
mobilize too.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Yep again.  The DP although a party of capitalist (actually a party
with in a capitalist state which is why they sound great but govern to
the right), is still internally contradictory.  Exploiting those
contradictions can help both prepare and create friction to make a
spark.

Brad