[lbo-talk] ISO?

// ravi ravi at platosbeard.org
Mon Nov 7 13:05:59 PST 2011


On Nov 7, 2011, at 3:24 PM, Carrol Cox wrote:
> You confuse "the left" with maillists. In most discourse among leftists you
> do not have a cascade of one or two sentences of metaphoric profundity, nor
> do you have people posing questions then leaning back smugly refusing to
> answer their own questions. The snarkiness you observe is with rare
> exceptions grounded in this sort of (non)communication.
>

Okay, I agree that’s true. In which case, it’s troubling to consider that such mailing lists might actually be a net negative.


> And having said that, I took a second look at your post & now note that you
> yourself have engaged in the snarkinesds you bewail. What is _your_ opinion_
> this question you raise? :-)

Do you mean on this thread? None of my questions on this thread (Subject: ISO) or the black bloc action thread were intended as snark.

On the issue of internal animus (of the shallow, not principled, variety), that LT wrote about, I have no answer. I see it happen. I see what seem to be straightforward issues deteriorate within a response or two to baiting, motive mongering and such. Sometimes I think, well, perhaps that’s just the more robust style of US interaction - list members can trash talk on list but will hug it out in person :-). Other times, I am not so sure.

On the matter of the black bloc action, I must confess that the same questions as occur to Doug arise in my mind as well: what is the value of such action? I am (perhaps unlike Doug and SA) willing to accept an answer that this question itself is valueless.

Some people have equated the criticism of the "violence" to a defence of Whole Foods or capitalists - or various similar claims, which seems flawed to me (hence my questions to Bhaskar). Others have bemoaned the attitudes of those questioning the violence - the sort of non-argument (characterising the opponent) that I have always found fruitless. Perhaps they were pushed to do so by the the “robustly” passionate analysis of Max, Gar, others?

I have started and abandoned at least four responses on this thread in the last two days, since I am afraid I will only muddy things further. In the midst of this there has been good material as well… like large parts of Gar’s and Max’s posts, your point - a mere footnote! - about violence (“violence is not a principle of any kind”), etc.

—ravi



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