Carrol
-----Original Message----- From: lbo-talk-bounces at lbo-talk.org [mailto:lbo-talk-bounces at lbo-talk.org] On Behalf Of // ravi Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 3:06 PM To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org Subject: Re: [lbo-talk] ISO?
On Nov 7, 2011, at 3:24 PM, Carrol Cox wrote:
> You confuse "the left" with maillists. In most discourse among leftists
you
> do not have a cascade of one or two sentences of metaphoric profundity,
nor
> do you have people posing questions then leaning back smugly refusing to
> answer their own questions. The snarkiness you observe is with rare
> exceptions grounded in this sort of (non)communication.
>
Okay, I agree that's true. In which case, it's troubling to consider that such mailing lists might actually be a net negative.
> And having said that, I took a second look at your post & now note that
you
> yourself have engaged in the snarkinesds you bewail. What is _your_
opinion_
> this question you raise? :-)
Do you mean on this thread? None of my questions on this thread (Subject: ISO) or the black bloc action thread were intended as snark.
On the issue of internal animus (of the shallow, not principled, variety), that LT wrote about, I have no answer. I see it happen. I see what seem to be straightforward issues deteriorate within a response or two to baiting, motive mongering and such. Sometimes I think, well, perhaps that's just the more robust style of US interaction - list members can trash talk on list but will hug it out in person :-). Other times, I am not so sure.
On the matter of the black bloc action, I must confess that the same questions as occur to Doug arise in my mind as well: what is the value of such action? I am (perhaps unlike Doug and SA) willing to accept an answer that this question itself is valueless.
Some people have equated the criticism of the "violence" to a defence of Whole Foods or capitalists - or various similar claims, which seems flawed to me (hence my questions to Bhaskar). Others have bemoaned the attitudes of those questioning the violence - the sort of non-argument (characterising the opponent) that I have always found fruitless. Perhaps they were pushed to do so by the the "robustly" passionate analysis of Max, Gar, others?
I have started and abandoned at least four responses on this thread in the last two days, since I am afraid I will only muddy things further. In the midst of this there has been good material as well. like large parts of Gar's and Max's posts, your point - a mere footnote! - about violence ("violence is not a principle of any kind"), etc.
-ravi
___________________________________ http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/mailman/listinfo/lbo-talk