COX: Demonstrations are not directed at the state: they are directed at those who have not joined them yet. The goal is to grow.
GULICK: I agree up to a certain point, . . . .
Cox: Of course (NOT sarcasm)
Gulick: but now I would hazard to say that further growth may be impeded by intensifying police surveillance and shows of force,
Cox: Yes & no. So far police actions have _aided_ in the growth, but I agree that at some point the Occupations will be suppressed. As I said in my post, the Occupations have the _form_ of an insurrection, and typically insurrections (even 'viirtual' ones, or Dress Rehearsals for one) are suppressed by force. But only eventually, & probably thse Occupations have a few weeks yet. (But it doesn't matter; they have triumphed already if they are all suppressed or fizzle out in thenext two days. (More on that below).
Gulick: and by the absence of any sustained discussion on what the horizons of the movement are or might be.
Cox: (This won't conflict with your next statements.) "Sustained discussions" have been going on, both on the sites and among those who, whether at the sites or not who say "WE" in respect to them. But then you write, "horizons of themovemfent," and here we see the confusion that calling the Occupations "a movement" can create. They aren't "a movement," but they are and will be the source of many Movements (or will influence/have influenced) a number of ongoing Movements. The "horizon" of these Occupations, narrowly conceived, is probably quite limited - and here the discussionmust go on primarily on the sites of the individual Occupations, though there is an obvious flow of discussion among the various sites and with various parts of the whole 'ouside' the sites. Some of this present discussion here will flow into those discussions. There is of course intense sustained discussion going on within various organizations, local and national, both in respect to immediate events and in anticipation of future activity. You cannot have this many thousand people (or tens of thousands) gathered together without a hell of a lot of discussion going on, the fruits of which will become visible only in the future. (The cookie-cutter critics want it to fit their sense of left decorum, and hence they cannot participate in what is going on.)
Gulick: (This is different than a "clear message" or "set of demands.") Further growth is only possible now if the Occupations reach out to people who are basically sympathetic and have the time/energy/resources to protest, but are hesitant to do so because they're not exactly sure what they're risking unpleasant police jostling for.
Cox: I think that outreach (and 'inreach') has been going on from the very beginning. The most obvious from is the presence of people from various organizations (anarchist, Marxists, anti-war, etc) in the Occupations. The border of the Occupations is incredibly and wonderfully fluid. "The Occupations" do not as a single entity "reach out." But 'something' is reaching out with intensifying power. (And here again we confront the difficulty of saying just what the Occupations are: what species are they of what genus. We can't really discuss what we are until we have some provisional answer to this question.) I think it's best at this point to see the Outreach as embodied in the individuals within the Occupations and their multiple relationships.
Gulick: IMO concerted strategic discussion is now further necessitated now that the whole "base camp" (Zuccotti Square e.g.) modus operandi of the Occupations has been thrust into crisis due to evictions.
Cox: This is probably the subject of intense discussion within all the occupations. I think I disagree that strategic discussion is needed; in fact I'm skeptical of "strategic planning" among leftists. The visible occupations end at some point, but that's no big deal. The Mole digs on, though Summer Soldiers and Sunshine Radicals don't believe in moles.
Carrol
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