Last+1 just to +1 (and now I’ll shut up).
On Oct 18, 2011, at 1:50 PM, shag carpet bomb wrote:
> wow. this is so completely not the case here. there are people who are
> clearly socialists. there are people who are libertarians. there are
> people who are all about voting for democrats - who recognize that
> obama is not doing a great job - but believe they have to work for
> democrats. i.e., they've actually thought things through. (this is a
> guy who recently wrote a letter to the civic league of the wealthiest
> neighborhood here) bitching at them for whining about what to do with
> the homeless sleeping in their parks rather than asking why there are
> homeless people).
>
> there are people who are clearly conservative. there are tea parties.
> there are the disffected middle of the roaders. there are people who
> come from a long line of union membership.
>
> there are trolls and people off their meds, too.
>
> the thing is, we get harrassed all the time for not having a program.
>
> the line, "it's about occupying, not a program right now" is a
> tactical defense.
>
> the inevitable attempts by loudmouths to show up and derail people, to
> frighten and intimidate them, by demanding a program, by demnading
> their platform, by demanding to say they are right or left... these
> are people to whom these very same folks - who articulate a politics
> (as described above) - are the people who shoot back with: we are not
> about that right now. this is about unity and solidarity right now.
>
> others, bolder (like me) say: thanks for your interest in our program.
> when we figure it out, we'll let you know. and even bolder, I simply
> call the repeat offenders trolls who are there to destroy solidarity
> not build it.
>
> after about 3 days of that kind of hassling from trolls, everyone has
> very quickly figured out that the proper response to trolls is to
> ignore them.
>
> until they are caught out, the people who demand a program, demand
> that people take a side (left or right, which one?) are studiously and
> purposefully told to bugger off, that's not what we're into right now.
>
> but of course that is all being worked out in debate and dicussion.
> it's just that no one will have those discussion with people who are
> clearly trolling.
>> On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 12:04 PM, Doug Henwood <dhenwood at panix.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I thought you'd say that. Of course they're political. But the youth
>>> I talked to hadn't really thought things through politically. They
>>> had no political analysis to speak of.
>>
>> Right. Seems close to my experience as well. But those same people are
>> doing politics, even if they don't have an articulated analysis.
>> Politics doesn't require a fully formed ideology.