Carrol
-----Original Message----- From: lbo-talk-bounces at lbo-talk.org [mailto:lbo-talk-bounces at lbo-talk.org] On Behalf Of shag carpet bomb Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2011 8:36 AM To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org Subject: Re: [lbo-talk] Jacobin debate up
i think the women in question, who had gray hair and was a veteran of the 60s, was offended by being called 'ma'am' in that context. it's one thing when the bagger at the grocery store does it, where its use is part of what constitutes the space as one where the worker is deferent to the customer.
In a society where we are all presumably equal, whenever we are in a space that is presumed to be on "even ground" where there are no roles or positions - we're all just citizens in a room - the use of 'ma'am' or 'sir' from a young person comes off as intentionally being assy. "I'm going to pretend to use the language of deference, but what I really mean by it is: you're annoying me lady, shut up and quit blabbering on and on and if you don't have a question."
I'm drawing on the arguments of symbolic interactionists in sociology who talk about how symbols and rituals pervade social spaces, giving them certain meanings.
A man sticking cold metal instruments into a woman's vagina is one thing when the room is brightly lit, the man is wearing a white coat, and there are diplomas on the wall and another thing when the man is dressed in latex in a dark room lined with velvet drapes in a dungeon.
Thus, ma'am and sir get used in spaces of consumption, where we pretend that the customer is king, the person who we are serving. Using it in a space that isn't a retail space or even, say, the welfare office or DMV, is suspect and will set someone off because they immediately assume it's being used sarcastically or to insult especially if the term wasn't used for other speakers and questioners.
At 09:15 AM 10/23/2011, Carrol Cox wrote:
>Shag: very few people call 22 year old women 'ma'am'.
>
>And it's not inconceivable that someone who did might lose some teeth.
>
>Carrol
>
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