[lbo-talk] autumn of the communes

shag carpet bomb shag at cleandraws.com
Mon Oct 31 03:29:05 PDT 2011


Yeah. I agree. One thing Carrol has said, and I think it's very true. When we have a discussio, calling each other names is not that big a deal. Using ad hominem and logical fallacy, however, is something you use on your enemy. When people elect to use logical fallacy here, I at first assume it's a mistake. When that becomes their main line of argument, then I assume that they are not interested in solidarity. I assume that those who prefer to use it in arguments have decided that they see members of this list as the enemy.

My recommendation is that if the only argument someone has is to call you a hypocrite, poison the wells by aligning your views with an enemy's, or engage in motive mongering, then that person should just go in your filter file. They aren't ever interested in putting your arguments in the best light possible.

For those of you who don't like what I have to say, I'd suggest a filter file. As Yates says, I know exactly who can't stand what I have to say or because they don't like it, have fantasies about it - which, I admit, amuse me! I also know that people want to hear what I have to say, subscribe to my blog, forward my posts to others for reading. It's just part of life.

So, Doug, Andy, Joanna, Miles, etc. just create a filter file.

shag

Michael Yates has good advice; as he says, we've all experienced these things, and survived (for the most part). There is no reason we can't draw back from the recent unpleasantries, but still continue the debate on what is after all the crucial question of what "The Left" should look like. Carrol

-----Original Message----- From: lbo-talk-bounces at lbo-talk.org [mailto:lbo-talk-bounces at lbo-talk.org] On Behalf Of MICHAEL YATES Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2011 8:51 PM To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org Subject: [lbo-talk] the autumn of the communes?

Who hasn't learned by, say, age 30 that not everyone likes them? Who on the left hasn't experienced visceral hatred? Whose ideas haven't been dismissed? Who hasn't been called a hypocrite? Who hasn't been treated with maximum disrespect? Whose feelings haven't been hurt? Who doesn't get angry? So what? For those of us who get a good deal of respect, even adulation, isn't this enough? Why, if we have confidence in our ideas and arguments and are satisfied with our behavior, does sharp criticism from someone matter? If we think what a person says is ad hominem or irrational, our best course is to ignore it. If a person refuses to see how wonderful we truly are, we should ask ourselves why our egos are so outsized. We should always try to stick to the issues and not the person. No matter what the verbal or written provocation. I used to be a good basketball player. I hated to lose, and I would do almost anything not to. I would get in a heated argument at least once a week, !

and I played every day for almost thirty years. That's a lot of arguments. I'd give hard fouls and not call them, but I'd bitch like crazy if someone fouled me and didn't call it. I'd push and shove, trash talk, and "fuck you, asshole" escaped all too frequently from my lips. I never won the good sportsmanship award. Once after another outburst from me, my best friend threw the ball at my head as hard as he could. Luckily, I ducked. But he said, did you ever notice that whenever there is trouble on the court you are ALWAYS involved. Man, that stung. I never forgot this. It is something I carry in my mental suitcase. I have slipped a few times in life since that day but not too many. Oh, and the next year, I did win that sportsmanship award. ___________________________________ http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/mailman/listinfo/lbo-talk -- http://cleandraws.com Wear Clean Draws ('coz there's 5 million ways to kill a CEO)



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