[lbo-talk] On white supremacy

c b cb31450 at gmail.com
Tue Apr 3 10:22:09 PDT 2012


Charles Brown It is very important for the Occupy Movement to struggle against white supremacy. Therefore, the whole Zimmerman murder case is very important for the Occupy Movement to discuss. White supremacy is the main way in which the 99% are divided. This division is the main way that the 99% are undermined in its fight against the 1% For Occupy Michigan in Lansing & Detroit, white supremacy is the main barrier to overturning the Dictator law , because prejudice against Detroit, built up over decades of hating on Detroit, befuddles many Michigan voters into supporting the takeover of Detroit. The recent threads on this were not "out of control" , but very important debates. White members of the Occupy Movement have a special duty to struggle against white supremacy. This is especially true of white people consider themselves "occupying" Detroit, which is 85% Black.

Monica Ross-Williams likes this.

Marion Townsend

I agree that there are racial boundaries that must be crossed. Many of the reasons you see "white" people occupying Detroit is because no one knows how to engage the residents of Detroit, so it is being occupied by a few white folks who care enough to do so (most live in the burbs or on the outer fringes of the city). How do we actively engage the people of Detroit (both black and white) to get involved, be active, and help us help them? I was raised in Detroit (near Grand River and Greenfield) on the west side, so my heart is there even though my poor white ass is in the burbs. I want to help fight FOR Detroit, with the citizens of Detroit. We have to find a way to actively engage people. How do we get them involved? How do we get out into the community and engage people who don't have Internet, don't get the newspaper, aren't current on any news, and may not even know what Occupy is and what it is trying to do? I know there are people out there who don't even realize the city is being assaulted by Lansing in an attempted takeover by the governor and his minions. That information gap has to be filled. How do we do that?

Tony Lagace That is not a completely accurate account of occupy Detroit I encourage people to come down to a general assembly go to an action and see what is happening first hand...

Charles Brown

The People _in_ the Occupy Movement are not the problem. If all of the white people in Michigan and the US had the attitudes against white supremacy tht the vast majority of Occupiers have, especially those who have come to Detroit proper to try to ally with Detroiters who r predominantly Black, comes the revolution. It is people like the two who were debating fiercely defending Zimmerman and people who think like them OR more importantly people who are influenced by that type of thinking but who can be dissuaded of that type of thinking who the white Occupiers need to struggle with, change, persuade that they are wrong. They won't listen to Black people, like me. The only chance of moving them is other white people who think like Occupiers moving them to a more sensible way of thinking. For example, seeing and not denying that the killing of Treyvon Martin was a white supremacist premised killing; that there are many more like it and racist arrests and imprisonments as well. The whole criminal "justice" system has a white supremacist bias, etc., etc. Occupiers must become experts in this whole argument from the standpoint of the unity of the 99%

Marion Townsend

I know there are some members from the community, but there needs to be lots more. How do we engage the rest of the citizens that aren't out there, Tony? That's what we need to do. And we need to engage the burbs too - this whole thing isn't just a Detroit issue, or a state issue - it's a national issue - and it affects everyone whether they're white, black, purple, orange, poor, single, married, working, not working - everyone in this country is being affected whether they admit it or not. Charles Brown - I can be a public speaker for you - where do you need me to speak and to who? I can be that "white" person you need. I don't exactly believe the Trayvon killing was totally racially based. I believe Zimmerman did indeed profile him and suspect him solely based on his blackness. I think the shooting was just an unbalanced man with a small penis and a large gun and not that Trayvon was black. I believe the subsequent non-filing of charges was a poor decision based on loyalty to political allies and that is totally wrong. I believe Zimmerman is getting a free pass simply based on who his father is and that is wrong. I'm not certain that Zimmerman should spend the rest of his life in prison, but I also believe that Trayvon's parents should be afforded the ability to see their son's killer at least stand trial for his actions.

Chris PaulBot McKelvie Yeah Charles, it's all because of white people. You aren't racist at all. When is the next New Black Panther meeting?

Chris PaulBot McKelvie Like I said earlier, don't you ever get tired of playing the victim?

Charles Brown Like I said earlier, don't you ever get tired of playing the victim?/// Yes you keep saying that but it's stupid. I'm not playing the victim. So, ur continuing to say it is lying.

Chris PaulBot McKelvie No, you're just always complaining about racism and white supremacy. Yes, that must be the reason Detroit is in the condition it is now.

Charles Brown White supremacy does exist, and Black people in general are victimized by it. Therefore, they are not _playing_ victims. They _are_victims. Your denying that is the major form of white supremacy today. Your discussion on this thread is white supremacist. Saying things like don't you ever get tired of playing the victim is white supremacist lying and slander.

Chris PaulBot McKelvie Ok, black people are also victimized by other black people. Why is color the most important issue to you and not the fact that people are victimizing people and that it's wrong regardless of their color?

Charles Brown

Yeah Charles, it's all because of white people. You aren't racist at all. When is the next New Black Panther meeting?/// No, "it" is because of the white supremacist system which gives advantages with long history impacting today still material advantages and priviliges to white people relative to people of color. Correct I am not racist at all. I am very ANTI-racist. The Black Panthers don't exist anymore because the FBI and other police forces destroyed them by murder and other methods. The FBI action were an example of the system of white supremacy in action.

Chris PaulBot McKelvie LOL. The FBI going after Black Panthers was white supremacy? Yeah, you don't play the victim at all. They aren't the equivalent to rednecks in the KKK at all.

Marion Townsend

‎Charles Brown - just ignore the PaulBot - he is obviously here just posting and trying to incite idiocy. We don't have to answer him. If we ignore him maybe he'll go away. I acknowledge that white supremacy exists and it makes me sick to think that human beings could be so cruel to one another. We're all the same on the inside, so the outside doesn't matter at all. I'm sure his equally anti-social friend will be along at any moment to support his inane arguments and attack you some more (as if you aren't getting attacked enough by the government...).

Chris PaulBot McKelvie Yeah, the government I'm sure is really going after Charles. How am I trying to incite idiocy? Because I don't think that white people are the cause of every issue in Detroit? News flash: It's not.

It may exist and may still be a problem, but it's far from the biggest problem.

Charles Brown

Yes, Marion. however, I don't think we can ignore people who talk like him. He must be countered , not ignored. That's how the tea party won so much in 2010. We did not take them on in 2009 and 2010. It is politically dangerous to ignore people like tht. We must engage them directly in rhetorical struggle. We must point by point counter hist statements, demonstrate their wrongness and falseness; his lies must be countered, not ignored , because left by themselves they influence a lot of people or partially so.

Charles Brown

The white supremacist system is the cause of the difference between Detroit and majority white cities. Detroit has on average lower life expectancy, higher rate of disease, lower income, less wealth, more crime, overall lower quality and quantity of life than majority white jurisdiction because of the white supremacist system and its legacy and heritage which still influence the differences between racial groups as groups. Of course, there are many poor white people and white people who are major VICTIMS of the overall system. There are individual white people who are worse off than individual Black people. We are discussing social averages. Those social facts do exist as much as facts in physics or biology. Most individual white people are not doing anything to oppress Black people. That's what makes the above hard for them to understand. I will end here and leave discussion of the specific mechanisms of white supremacy for elsewhere.

Marion Townsend

Wasn't saying not to tackle the issue - was just saying to ignore him here and don't engage him - he will not change his mind or his rude ways. He is brainwashed beyond an area where we could even reach his intellect with any semblence of common sense, as evidenced by his posts. His only purpose here is to distract us from dealing with the issue in the real world. He is beyond our help, so ignore him and concentrate on the greater good. The issue itself most assuredly needs tackling. All the work that went into the civil rights demonstrations of the 60s has been undone in the past two years.

Chris PaulBot McKelvie

Can you just explain why the FBI arresting people in the black panthers was racist? You can't make these wild claims and then not support them.

The "white supremacist system." Yeah, or we could just say the system was built in a way that disenfranchises MANY people not just blacks. Native Americans didn't exactly get a sweet deal. Then again neither did the Irish when they came, nor do hispanics and even Muslims as a religion.

Well, I guess you don't get as much shock value. Charles, you'd make Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson proud.

Chris PaulBot McKelvie

Yeah Marion, everything that the civil rights movement accomplished has been undone in the past two years. Again, would you care to back that up with facts? No, just call me a troll and keep making wild claims. Sounds like you're the brainwashed one as you can never back up a single thing you say.

I already proved you were wrong about the law in FL and the Trayvon case that the police "had to arrest him" when I cited the law. You knocking anyones intellect or common sense is the best example of the pot calling the kettle black.



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