[lbo-talk] Rosa on Old Women (Was: Graeber responds to Hedges)

[shag carpet bomb]

At 08:02 AM 2/10/2012, lbo83235 wrote:
>On Feb 10, 2012, at 2:45 PM, Carrol Cox wrote:
>
> > Fuck it someone says; there
> > will never be a really good time. Let's DO IT. Let's RISK it. We can't do
> > worse than look like fools. Let's do it!
>
>Fair enough, but I think you're overlooking an important dimension to 
>this, which is how the group responds if someone has the courage (if that 
>is the word) to say, "I *so* want to do this, but I'm scared shitless." 
>How does the group respond to that? Does the person get shamed into 
>compliance, or hounded out of the group? I'm not discounting the 
>possibility that maybe they *should* be so shamed, or so ostracised, but I 
>think we should have an honest and frank conversation about when and why. 
>If we're going to shame or ostracise people, we should do it consciously 
>and intentionally, rather than out of in-group tribal-identity dynamics, 
>or interpersonal ego-swinging crap, one or the other of which is what 
>usually happens. Or both. I'd like to redeem the concept, so to speak, and 
>I understand and like the example you've cited. But I do think the 
>language of heroism is easily co-opted in service of retrogressive forces, 
>so should probably be approached a bit carefully.

I think he used an unfortunate example. I think CC is talking far more 
generally. I have never, ever had anyone complain b/c I didn't want to do 
something that might risk my arrest for instance. The point is that you are 
there at all, engaged; not merely supporting (to borrow's Joe C's apt 
complaint about "support") but engaged, doing something.

Boots Riley is fascinating to read in this regard, someone to learn from. 
He constantly hammers home the message, "Look, the black bloc bothers you? 
Afraid to march because you might get hurt. There are plenty of other 
things you can do."

He's getting at what I mentioned elsewhere: this pervasive tendency for 
lefties to look for near perfection in any org or activity before they join 
it. there's this sense that it will fail, that no one will know what they 
are doing, that they'll make mistakes, that they'll look like idiots if 
they leaflet an event and people end up yelling at them instead of being 
supportive, or things just don't turn out as planned, or - as so often 
happens - energy and eagerness dissipate into busy lives, apathy, lull....

when I would ask them, "so, if you don't like the outfits that are out 
there, if you feel uncomfortable plugging in to something and adapting, why 
don't you start your own...."

Answer:  I'm not a leader. I've not got the personality to do such a thing. 
I know I should. I know I should try harder, I just don't think I would 
know how to do it and, basically, I really don't like people.

There was an article I posted here, by an anarchist in Las Vegas who said 
that the reason why people on the left didn't join OWS or why they held it 
at arm's length is because they are ashamed of the fact that they have 
these high ideals about how people should be, what the left should look 
like, what "the people" ought to stand for, but when they actually have to 
mix it up with them, they discover they just don't like them. The shame 
they feel in contrast to the ideal they have of themselves as "man or woman 
of the people" leads to self-hating depression and inability to get off 
asses, etc.

the constant focus on how flawed and bad people in the movement are is a 
projection of their own disgust with themselves as flawed human beings.

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