[lbo-talk] Dismal science on education, again

Jeffrey fisher jeff.jfisher at gmail.com
Sun Jan 15 10:24:57 PST 2012


I don't think lights going on is about banking, and I think most of the people I know are well aware of the process by which we build on things others have done, and others build on things we have done, and all of these moments take place in larger contexts. so the light going on is never just about me. I like to think its about the student , but there is no doubt that I take satisfaction in it when they seem to be figuring things out and I might have had something to do with it. I'll cop to that. Honestly, I don't think I could keep doing what I do if I didn't think that I had some kind of (desirable) non-trivial effect on at least some of my students. It wouldn't be worth it.

fwiw I try to engage my students as interlocutors, not just with me, but with each other. but of course they often don't know enough to do that effectively (until they get some knowledge), and they themselves often resist engaging in discussion, virtually demanding to be passive recipients. I don't kid myself that I am perfect about all this, either in terms of my thinking (it's seductive and in many ways insidious to think of my skill and influence here) or in terms of my execution of the things I'd really like to do.

But then, I'm not even sure what I'm doing is teaching. Except insofar as I make sure to do something most people would recognize as teaching, just because, you know, having a job and stuff.

Is it also worth thinking about differences here between k-12 and higher ed?

On Jan 13, 2012, at 8:45 PM, 123hop at comcast.net wrote:


> Well, of course, you're completely right.
>
> Although, even in the integrated model, where a child learns by being successively integrated into the community,and learning skills thereby, there remains a mentor/mentee relationship, and depending on the psychopathology of the mentor, there might still be some banking going on.
>
> But mostly, you're right.
>
> Joanna
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> you both remind me of the analyses of teaching as a highly sexualized
> exchange. you are up there, on display, dispensing knowledge in a position
> of power and authority. In this view, teaching is a little bit like the
> experience between analyst and analysand. in which case, although carrol is
> correct that the lights going on thing is ancient, what *is* different is
> the context in which it all happens:
>
> the rise of schooling - which refers to a specific process where learning
> becomes a separate function, pulled out of the family and community.
>
> the process of age grading - where students are grouped by age and
> separated from those younger and older
>
> the gendered nature of schooling (admittedly changing) - where men are
> increasingly dominant in roles higher up that age grading latter so that
> they are the great majority of teachers in college and beyond, etc.
>
> the professionalization of teaching - where teachers must go through more
> and more levels of schooling to be able to interact with students
>
> the dominance of the "banking model" of schooling - you put knowledge into
> their brains and then expect to be able to withdraw it on command
>
> the dominance of knowledge as something one passively receives, as a
> product of a teacher, rather than as something that one achieves, actively
> claims, works for as the learner in community with other learners.
>
> etc./
>
> The point, of course, is that this supposedly "special" experience becomes
> highly personalized, individualized, seen as the unique work of a special
> teacher and that it can only happen in certain contexts: with teachers,
> lone individuals, standing alone at the front of the classroom, the font of
> knowledge, the very reason for a light going on, etc. that the teacher
> makes this happen, and not the student. that it's the product of a unique,
> individual, lone experience
>
> At 03:04 PM 1/13/2012, Jeffrey fisher wrote:
>
>
>> On Jan 13, 2012, at 2:49 PM, Alan Rudy <alan.rudy at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 2:08 PM, Dennis Redmond
>> <metalslorg at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 11:07 PM, Alan Rudy <alan.rudy at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> That said, there are the moments when students actually get something.
>>>> You see the little lights go on, and there's nothing more wonderful in
>>>> the world.
>>>>
>>>> -- DRR
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> very very true, its almost as great as when they ask you what you're
>>> teaching next semester and then they show up in a class.
>>
>> Yep
>> ___________________________________
>> http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/mailman/listinfo/lbo-talk
>
> --
> http://cleandraws.com
> Wear Clean Draws
> ('coz there's 5 million ways to kill a CEO)
>
> ___________________________________
> http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/mailman/listinfo/lbo-talk
> ___________________________________
> http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/mailman/listinfo/lbo-talk



More information about the lbo-talk mailing list