[lbo-talk] A Critical Review of David Graeber's Debt

Tayssir John Gabbour tjg at pentaside.org
Tue Jun 12 08:52:30 PDT 2012


On Tue, Jun 12, 2012 at 2:49 PM, Doug Henwood <dhenwood at panix.com> wrote:
> His - I won't call it a failure because he doesn't even seem interested in trying to make the case - lack of interest in investigating capitalism as a social system with some unique characteristics really seems to come from the anarchist obsession with the state above all else. So much of the Occupy movement is - was? - about space and state but has a lot of trouble talking about production and property.

I remember you mentioned earlier that you don't think Graeber actually understands what capitalism is. Is his explanation on Louis Proyect's blog ignorant? (This is a question to everyone in general, not you specifically.) Should he focus more on property relations between people?

"In response to the question about what is capitalism, I must say

that, rather like Marx actually, I’m not too keen on the word. I do

use it I have to admit, it’s hard not to, but I tend to prefer to

talk about capital, which can be defined roughly as productive

wealth deployed so as to accumulate more wealth through the

exploitation, direct or indirect, or labor power, realized through

surplus value. It is hardly the only form of value realization that

occurs in any society, or “social formation” if you prefer. (I’ve

written about other forms extensively in my book on value theory

but don’t really want to go into it here.) Sure the world system of

today is dominated by capitalist relations of production but it’s

never the only form. But for me this is different from the issue of

the variety of labor arrangements that capitalist relations of

production might entail. And yes, you could make a circular

definition and say that capitalist relations are by definition free

labor but I’m not sure what is gained by doing this.

"I personally don’t think it’s helpful to make a strict distinction

between slaves who are only kept alive and wage laborers who are

compensated, since that would mean a lot of slaves aren’t slaves,

since often slaves were rented out and received half their wages as

a stipend – in fact, this was the primary form of wage labor in the

ancient world! But that’s another conversation."

http://louisproyect.wordpress.com/2012/04/25/david-graeber-on-capitalism-and-unfree-labor/

All the best,

Tj



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