[lbo-talk] Obama Speaks Out on Trayvon Martin Killing

Jordan Hayes jmhayes at j-o-r-d-a-n.com
Fri Mar 23 11:11:29 PDT 2012


Wojtek:


> I just cannot see how the the Castle Doctrine laws are
> not a de facto license to kill anyone you do not like.

I don't have any special information in this case, but it seems highly unlikely that Trayvon Martin was killed by someone who understands what the Castle Doctrine is. It actually seems likely that he doesn't even understand the (nearly universal?) standard for self defense. So: I'm not sure your statement makes any sense.


> What else the phrase " reasonably believes it is necessary to
> do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or
> herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible
> felony" mean if not a license to shoot at will.

I'm sure you know that "the reasonable man" theory has nothing to do with the mind of the person taking the action, and everything to do with what it appears to his jurors happened after the fact. It should come as no surprise that the (very significant) rights and responsibilities of owning guns and cars aren't carefully considered in this society. I mean, just look at the widespread (with predictable devastating consequences) incidence of driving while intoxicated.

I don't think anyone believes that George Zimmerman thought he was stopping a forcible felony.


> The Zimmermann case illustrates that quite adequately - he
> and many before him - "reasonably believed" and the cops
> and courts agreed with them.

You'd have to quantify "many" since I don't think this is a very common case at all. If what you're saying is that cops have too much discretion in cases like this, then I agree. But I feel fairly confident that the courts won't be agreeing on this one. PREDICTION


> If I am ever in Florida (which I doubt because I typically
> do not travel outside the NE Corridor in this country) I can
> shoot Mr. Zimmermann and claim that I "reasonably believe"
> that he was about to harm me, because he had done so in the
> past.

This is unrelated to the "stand your ground" laws. You may do this today, in your home state (although maybe not with a gun; will a knife do? It will, if you will.). Just make sure that the person you kill isn't talking to someone on a cellphone and you haven't called 911 and said you are pursuing your victim. Make sure you have no witnesses, kill him, and then say that he he attacked you unprovoked and you defended yourself. Done and done.

/jordan



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