Cafrol
> -----Original Message-----
> From: lbo-talk-bounces at lbo-talk.org [mailto:lbo-talk-bounces at lbo-talk.org]
> On Behalf Of 123hop at comcast.net
> Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2013 11:05 AM
> To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
> Subject: Re: [lbo-talk] Pynchon (was James Heartfield's Unpatriotic
History
>
> Thinking through my issues with Pynchon and Delillo, and why I don't think
of
> their work as "great literature"....I've come to the conclusion that it's
not so
> much their individual fault as it is the case that bourgeois forms have
become
> completely exhausted, and they are still working these forms. The
bourgeois
> novel (that transcendental form of homelessness) depends nevertheless
> upon certain positive relations holding between the individual and
society,
> and these relations collapsed after WWI. After that, within the bourgeois
> world view, the best you can get are novels of ideas and magical
realism....
> both degraded forms. Kafka stands alone in the wreckage.
>
> So, taking the bildungs roman, we see the end of that with "Ulysses" or
"Mrs
> Dalloway" or even "Metamorphosis." Taking the historical novel, we see the
> end of that with, oh, I don't know, "Man Without Qualities."
>
> After the collapse of these bourgeois forms, it's still possible to be
Kafka, but
> it is not possible to be Tolstoy.
>
> The work of RB Traven suggests a shift in the novel (see "Bridge in the
Jungle"
> and "Death Ship") -- a new relationship between writer and reader, but I'm
> hard put to describe it or to describe what is new/different/interesting
about
> his authorial voice. But the seeds of a future great literature are sown
by
> Traven; not by Pynchon or Delillo.
>
> Orwell tries to write about some of this in an essay called "Inside the
Whale."
> I highly recommend it.
>
> Joanna
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> Joanna:
>
> > As a literary work however, it is fairly thin beer.
>
> Meaning what? You don't like it stylistically?
>
> > I have also read Delilo, which left no lasting impression except the
> > unwillingness to read anything else by him.
>
> What did you start with? I mean, I don't want to come across as one of
those
> obnoxious fans who insist you started with the wrong thing, and that if
you
> just read "work x" you'd appreciate it (I hate music fans who do that),
but I'm
> curious to know what work by Delillo put you off. I think the early,
pre-White
> Noise stuff is fantastic, and White Noise itself is pretty great. Some of
his
> more recent stuff comes across as a bit cold and distant, but I think
that's
> probably the intended effect.
>
> > Gibson I don't know.
>
> Hm. Well, I guess his seminal work would be "Neuromancer", but I have the
> feeling that anybody who didn't already read it in the 80s or early 90s
and
> then tried to read it now would wonder what the big deal is. Kind of like
> trying to listen to Lou Reed's Metal Machine Music with ears accustomed to
> glitch techno.
>
> Maybe some of the more recent stuff would be worth reading, though, like
> the trilogy that starts with Pattern Recognition.
>
>
>
>
> ___________________________________
> http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/mailman/listinfo/lbo-talk
> ___________________________________
> http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/mailman/listinfo/lbo-talk