[lbo-talk] but socialism and collectivism are as American as apple

[andie_nachgeborenen]

Public ownership and a welfare safety net are not socialist. They are things socialist should support, but socialist institutions change the relations of class power. The institutions you list do not. The pop front slogan Communism is 20th century Americanism failed (certainly to promote Communism)' and your recasting it in terms if socialism a touch of H Rap Brown is also a allure. 'Americanism" is historically defined as the opposite of communism, ruggesred individualism, Hiratio Alger, pull your sell up by your bootstraps, In today's jargon, continually reinvent yourself as a marketable commodity in a world where whatever you reinvented yourself as last time is off shored or already obsolete , anti-collectivist, anti-gummint, etc.  

Sent from my iPad

On Sep 3, 2013, at 12:53 PM, c b <cb31450 at gmail.com> wrote:


>   - Occupy Healthcare
>   Ridiculous! Why would anyone listen to him?
>   “Heritage Foundation president and former Senator Jim DeMint suggested
>   to a town hall audience in Wilmington, Delaware Thursday that health care
>   programs like Medicare and Medicaid are “un-American” and built on the
>   principles of “socialism and collectivism.”’
>   Like · · 17282 · August 30 at 7:00pm ·
> 
>   Charles Brown They are built on principles of socialism and collectivism
>   , but socialism and collectivism are as American as apple pie. The
>   following are built on the same principles: pretty much all local
>   government , including water and sewerage, garbage pickup, police and fire
>   services, public health, public parks etc. Also socialist are public
>   schools, Social Security, public roads and highways, the whole military.
>   America has a long history of successful socialist institutions.
>   Like<https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=630203120357731&id=100001041473643&comment_id=101022455&offset=0&total_comments=7&notif_t=feed_comment#>·
> ·
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>   - Chris Benison <https://www.facebook.com/chris.benison.7> and Janet
>      Roe-Darden <https://www.facebook.com/janet.roedarden> like this.
>      - <https://www.facebook.com/janet.roedarden>
>      Janet Roe-Darden <https://www.facebook.com/janet.roedarden> DeMint is
>      an effing idiot, and I was appalled when he left politics to head the
>      Heritage Foundation. Ye gods....
>      14 minutes
> ago<https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=630203120357731&id=100001041473643&comment_id=101022437&offset=0&total_comments=12>·
>      Like<https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=630203120357731&id=100001041473643&comment_id=101022455&offset=0&total_comments=7&notif_t=feed_comment#>
>      - <https://www.facebook.com/janet.roedarden>
>      Janet Roe-Darden <https://www.facebook.com/janet.roedarden> If you
>      ever see a good politician out of SC, do let me know. So far, I'm pretty
>      underwhelmed. No wonder the Civil War started down there.
>      13 minutes
> ago<https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=630203120357731&id=100001041473643&comment_id=101022439&offset=0&total_comments=12>·
>      Like<https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=630203120357731&id=100001041473643&comment_id=101022455&offset=0&total_comments=7&notif_t=feed_comment#>
>      - <https://www.facebook.com/geoffrey.garfield>
>      Geoffrey L. Garfield <https://www.facebook.com/geoffrey.garfield> Yet
>      he benefits from both.
>      10 minutes
> ago<https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=630203120357731&id=100001041473643&comment_id=101022443&offset=0&total_comments=12>via
>      mobile <https://www.facebook.com/mobile/> ·
> Like<https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=630203120357731&id=100001041473643&comment_id=101022455&offset=0&total_comments=7&notif_t=feed_comment#>·
>      1 <https://www.facebook.com/browse/likes?id=630206463690730>
>      - <https://www.facebook.com/janet.roedarden>
>      Janet Roe-Darden <https://www.facebook.com/janet.roedarden> (Snort)
>      'Course he does!
>      9 minutes
> ago<https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=630203120357731&id=100001041473643&comment_id=101022446&offset=0&total_comments=12>·
>      Like<https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=630203120357731&id=100001041473643&comment_id=101022455&offset=0&total_comments=7&notif_t=feed_comment#>
>      - <https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001041473643>
>      Charles Brown<https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001041473643>
> However,
>      he is correct that Medicaid and Meticare are based on socialist and
>      collectivist principles. It is just that socialism and collectivism are
>      good principles, and they are very American given all the socialist
>      institutions that long have been basic to America.
>      7 minutes
> ago<https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=630203120357731&id=100001041473643&comment_id=101022450&offset=0&total_comments=12>·
>      Like<https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=630203120357731&id=100001041473643&comment_id=101022455&offset=0&total_comments=7&notif_t=feed_comment#>·
>      1 <https://www.facebook.com/browse/likes?id=630207137023996>
>      - <https://www.facebook.com/geoffrey.garfield>
>      Geoffrey L. Garfield <https://www.facebook.com/geoffrey.garfield> No
>      socialism for banks and Wall Street!
>      6 minutes
> ago<https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=630203120357731&id=100001041473643&comment_id=101022454&offset=0&total_comments=12>via
>      mobile <https://www.facebook.com/mobile/> ·
> Like<https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=630203120357731&id=100001041473643&comment_id=101022455&offset=0&total_comments=7&notif_t=feed_comment#>·
>      1 <https://www.facebook.com/browse/likes?id=630207750357268>
>      - <https://www.facebook.com/janet.roedarden>
>      Janet Roe-Darden <https://www.facebook.com/janet.roedarden> The
>      average American doesn't really understand socialism, so they can ALWAYS
>      use that as a talking point to scare folks. It's just a reframing of the
>      "Red Peril."
>      5 minutes
> ago<https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=630203120357731&id=100001041473643&comment_id=101022455&offset=0&total_comments=12>·
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>      - <https://www.facebook.com/janet.roedarden>
>      Janet Roe-Darden <https://www.facebook.com/janet.roedarden> What sort
>      of socialism is it when the big guns get it and the little guy doesn't?
>      Isn't that more like National Socialism?
>      5 minutes
> ago<https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=630203120357731&id=100001041473643&comment_id=101022456&offset=0&total_comments=12>·
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>      - <https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001041473643>
>      Charles Brown<https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001041473643> I
>      forgot, with the bailout of Wall Street, GM and Chrysler, they are all
>      basically operating under socialist principles , too
>      4 minutes
> ago<https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=630203120357731&id=100001041473643&comment_id=101022457&offset=0&total_comments=12>·
>      Like<https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=630203120357731&id=100001041473643&comment_id=101022455&offset=0&total_comments=7&notif_t=feed_comment#>·
>      1 <https://www.facebook.com/browse/likes?id=630208150357228>
>      - <https://www.facebook.com/janet.roedarden>
>      Janet Roe-Darden <https://www.facebook.com/janet.roedarden> Charles.
>      I don't believe that, you don't forget anything! (Smile)
>      4 minutes
> ago<https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=630203120357731&id=100001041473643&comment_id=101022459&offset=0&total_comments=12>·
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>      - <https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001041473643>
>      Charles Brown<https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001041473643>
> The
>      little guys do get Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security, water
> and sewerage,
>      and all the services of local government. America has a lot more
> socialism
>      than we have been allowed to realize.
>      3 minutes
> ago<https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=630203120357731&id=100001041473643&comment_id=101022462&offset=0&total_comments=12>·
>      Like<https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=630203120357731&id=100001041473643&comment_id=101022455&offset=0&total_comments=7&notif_t=feed_comment#>
>      - <https://www.facebook.com/janet.roedarden>
>      Janet Roe-Darden <https://www.facebook.com/janet.roedarden> And
>      people like DeMint would love to privatize all of those...
>      2 minutes
> ago<https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=630203120357731&id=100001041473643&comment_id=101022463&offset=0&total_comments=12>·
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>      - <https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001041473643>
>      Charles Brown<https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001041473643>
> Yes,
>      it is time to re-educate the average American and let them know they live
>      under a substantially socialist system. There is a new
> generation that has
>      not been subject to anti-socialist lies since the end of the
> Soviet Union.
>      Polls show a large percentage who favor socialism as they know it. We
>      should teach that we already have a lot of socialism.
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